David: Social distancing has become a new addition to our English vocabulary. We’ve been told that maintaining a six-foot distance can prevent unnecessary burials six feet under. But the whole concept of social distancing speaks to me of the importance of giving each other space. I’m actually reading from a new devotional, Karen, and I have been using. A friend sent it to us, and we found it most interesting. I’ll tell you how you can get a copy. Just stick with us.

Intro: Welcome to the Before We Go Podcast featuring Dr. David Mains and his wife, noted author, Karen Mains. Here’s David and Karen Mains.

David: Greg Asimakoupoulos, that’s right, is Greek. Should have heard it before he changed it. That’s one of those old jokes anyway. Greg Asimakoupoulos sent us a copy. We used to work together in the chapel ministries long time ago. Greg’s very talented writer. He’s done a number of books. He sent us this Sheltering In Grace and he’s written all these devotionals, about 250 plus pages of them, related to the COVID situation. So, it’s been very fascinating for us each day to read one of these as we begin our day together and then have prayer. He says about social distancing, Paul recognized that he was a good church planter, but not the best at staying for the long haul.

Apollos was better suited for that. Get it? Giving each other space to do what we are gifted to do and giving each other the freedom to express our perspective promotes healthy relationships in the body of Christ. Well, that’s about a third of the devotional I read. Anyway, I said to Greg, “How do people get a copy of this? It’s quite interesting.” He said, “Just give him my email.” I said, “What is it?” And he said, “You know what it is. It’s been the same for years and years and as soon as he said it I recognized it. Greg’s email is awesomerev@aol.com. So, if you email awesomerev@aol.com you can get in touch with Greg. Actually, I think the book sells for about $15 and you add postage that gives you an idea of the expense.

Karen: Greg is a chaplain for retirement centers. He’s a great guy.

David: He’s a really great guy. He’s a covenant living at the shores out in Washington state. Yeah, he’s a neat, neat guy. The book is entitled Sheltering in Grace. Grace is a topic we’re going to talk about but I’m going to actually turn my microphone over to someone who is driven here from Colorado, a longtime friend, so that she can help Karen for a couple of weeks. What a gracious gesture on her part. Karen, just give me a moment to get out of this seat and let Jane Allen come and fill it for me okay?

Karen: In October of 1980 Jane Allen you appeared on the Mains’ doorstep. A mutual friend brought you to our door. How old were you then?

Jane Allen: I was 30 years old and I was homeless.

Karen: And you were homeless, okay. And you’d had a counter with this young woman who was a Christian and she was a friend of ours.

Jane Allen: Yes.

Karen: And so she brought you to us. Tell me about your childhood a little bit and we’ll catch people up as far as why you were homeless but let’s start with your childhood.

Jane Allen: It was very dysfunctional. A lot of abuse and no real parents really.

Karen: So you were adopted.

Jane Allen: I was adopted.

Karen: You had a twin.

Jane Allen: I had a twin.

Karen: Yeah, and so you two girls were adopted by this family. They wanted children but what do you think?

Jane Allen: My mom couldn’t have children.

Karen: She couldn’t have children. Yeah. And she probably shouldn’t have had children.

Jane Allen: No, I don’t think that would have been good.

Karen: She was abusive.

Jane Allen: She was very abusive.

Karen: So, tell me about that childhood growing up with her.

Jane Allen: Well, she brought a lot of fear and she also brought her own anger into our lives. My twin and my and so I had a very fighting spirit. How I survived was because of being very angry. I thought I was rough and tough. I’m not.

Karen: Well, you looked rough and tough when you came to our door in 1980.

Jane Allen: Well, I had my biker jacket on and I thought I was tough.

Karen: I’ll say that you had a dysfunctional childhood and a dysfunctional family and you were very scarred by that sort of back on the staff.

Jane Allen: I’ll agree with that.

Karen: Okay so when I saw you at my door I mean you’ve asked me why we began a relationship. I was filled with love for you.

Jane Allen: Oh I think so. I didn’t know how to accept that but I just was like, “Okay I needed a place. They seemed safe.”

Karen: So we invited you to live with us.

Jane Allen: Yes.

Karen: One of the things that people know about me is I’ve written a book on hospitality at Open Heart Open Home and I’m still pushing that scriptural concept because it is a scriptural concept and it’s all through scripture that we’re supposed to extend the hospitality.

Jane Allen: And I think that’s very important.

Karen: It is important and so I’m wanting the listener to think of perhaps the Holy Spirit giving them a nudge the way I was given a nudge. I looked at this rough tough gal at my door with her survival demeanor and I just was filled with love for you.

Jane Allen: Well yeah and you told me I was a marshmallow.

Karen: Yeah well, I discovered that you were a marshmallow on this inside. I had been praying for someone to help me in the house because it was way too much for me to manage. Four kids the house my own writing and then as you remember I was traveling and speaking almost every other weekend. And so, when you came to the door and I had this feeling of tenderness toward you. Don’t ask me where that came from because I think it was none of me. I think it was really of the Holy Spirit.

Jane Allen: Oh, I think so.

Karen: I looked at you and thought maybe this is God’s answer. So how long do you think you lived with us?

Jane Allen: Around in six years.

Karen: Yeah it’s about six years. So we did a lot of work, didn’t we? We worked in the house and outside and you became a real buddy with our youngest child. Our oldest son was in college and we had two high schoolers, junior high and then Jeremy was about 10. So tell me about your relationship with Jeremy.

Jane Allen: Oh, with Jeremy we hit it off really well at first. He was a good listener. He had a lot of profound things to say.

Karen: So he sort of was your counselor.

Jane Allen: Yes that’s a good word.

Karen: And you told me he insists that you had to do certain things.

Jane Allen: That’s true. He said, “You will listen to me,” and I’m 30 and he’s 10. And it’s just like, “Okay I’ll hear what you have to say.”

Karen: So you came and lived with us pretty much for six years and we saw this extraordinary change. What was that change all about?

Jane Allen: Well because there are things in my past that I chose that were not healthy for me like drugs and alcohol. Knowing that David and Karen were very steady and loving, I knew that I needed to change that part of my life.

Karen: So, you had to work on those sorts of things but there was a spiritual journey that also began at that time.

Jane Allen: Yes, there was definitely a spiritual journey. journey that was very hard for me but because of your persistent of praying, which I didn’t like, it got me through a lot.

Karen: So we did a lot of that praying stuff didn’t we?

Jane Allen: You did. I didn’t. Not at first.

Karen: But you did after a while.

Jane Allen: Yes. I came to a point where, “Hey this works.”

Karen: So, I want the listener to get a picture of one of those exteriorly rough personalities with a defensive mechanism that has been developed to say to the world, “I’m tough you can’t take me on I’ll do what I want.

Jane Allen: Rebelliousness.

Karen: Rebelliousness, right. But that was how you survived right?

Jane Allen: Yes, that’s exactly how I survived.

Karen: I mean you were really on the streets for a long time of your life there was a lot of this we’re not going into; you don’t need to go into. But you had gone into deep dark places right Jane?

Jane Allen: Very dark places.

Karen: Yeah, very dark places. So, you didn’t change overnight. No one does particularly when they’ve been as wounded and damaged as you were or people like you are. And what I’m wanting to say to our listeners is that when we extend hospitality to the people God brings into our lives there was no reason you should have shown up at our door at that time in your life at the time when I was praying for help with our house. We need to listen to that nudge.

Jane Allen: Oh, I agree. You know hospitality if you had that gift please use it. I don’t think I would have survived.

Karen: Yeah, I doubt that you would have survived.

Jane Allen: Oh, I’m pretty sure I’d be dead.

Karen: Yeah so, you’ve had a special place in your heart for…

Jane Allen: for the veterans and the homeless people I love talking to them. In Colorado there’s a lot of them and I’ll get out of my car and bring them something to eat and just talk to them pray with them and I just do have a heart for the veterans.

Karen: So, you’re extending hospitality in that way yeah and God has given you a very special feeling for that segment of our population who are a very needy segment, many of them are.

Jane Allen: Yeah in Colorado if you’re homeless you get put in jail. Why put a veteran in jail.

Karen: It’s horrible. Doesn’t make sense doesn’t. Okay look back on the past 40 years because it’s been 40 years since you lived with us and describe the changes, if you can, and who you’ve become since you were that tough ball of tight anger.

Jane Allen: I have learned through hospitality of David and Karen that if you feel the presence of the Lord and their love for you it changes you and that’s what it did for me.

Karen: Can you name some of those changes?

Jane Allen: Anger, fear. I don’t have to fight it every day anymore.

Karen: Yeah, so you feel like you’re less angry.

Jane Allen: Oh yeah. I’m a marshmallow.

Karen: You are a marshmallow on this inside but that’s in a good way. You’re very tender. And when Jane comes to our house. She is an extraordinary helper and I couldn’t have made it through those six years that you lived with us without your help and you were wonderful with the kids.

Jane Allen: Oh yeah I love the kids.

Karen: And just in every single way. What were some of your main responsibilities here? Do you remember?

Jane Allen: Well when you left, I made sure the kids had food; that they went to school. Just domestic things.

Karen: I remember you pushing laundry a lot.

Jane Allen: Oh yeah there are always laundry. Now it’s fine. I don’t mind it.

Karen: So, when Jane called recently to say that she thought she would come back here and visit with us one of the phrases she used was, “I know the routine you don’t have to tell me.”

Jane Allen: That’s true.

Karen: And it’s always such a gift to have you here you take a big load. Why did you leave our house?

Jane Allen: I just think that I needed to push on and being more dependent on myself.

Karen: Yeah, you were healthy enough then to go.

Jane Allen: Yes very healthy.

Karen: To go on and try the world on your own. I think you learned you needed to have those support mechanisms in ways. And you had begun a very real deep journey spiritually.

Jane Allen: Yes, I did.

Karen: Yeah. So that what’s your feeling about the Lord Jesus Christ right now?

Jane Allen: Oh, everything. I mean he’s my all. I have to depend on him and I will depend on him any aspect.

Karen: Your life has been totally changed right?

Jane Allen: Oh I think so.

Karen: Let’s say we have a listener who’s listening to us and there’s been a nudge in their lives and they’re a little hesitant about opening their home. So, we’re gonna say, “Try it.” And one of the ways that I learned to do that I don’t think I was that sophisticated with you at that time Jane. You were the first person I think who came and we’ve had other folks live with us but not as wounded as you were. As I say to people, “We’d love to have you come stay with us. Why don’t we try a month?” You come stay with us for a month and then we’ll see if this is good for you and good for us. And that month is a time when we can tell if we are compatible and can live together and to live healthily together. So that’s a suggestion I give to folks who might be listening thinking well I know someone.

Jane Allen: Yeah, and don’t give up. I know that I was rebellious and angry and stuff like that with David and Karen but they never gave up. They always prayed for me and they always showed their love.

Karen: And now you’re the one who calls us and prays for us. How about that?

Jane Allen: I do and I enjoy it 100%.

Karen: And she says, “Dear Lord,” with that gravely voice, “I’m praying for Karen.” And Karen sits on the other end of the line with tears just running down her cheeks because it’s such a work of God that I’m witness to. So that’s what we’re talking about today. We’re talking about hospitality. This is sort of a form of radical hospitality. But it can change lives. It changed our lives. We were better people for having you come into our home.

Jane Allen: Well, thank you. I’m definitely a better person. You guys were a blessing to me and I’m glad that you opened your heart and your home for me.

Outgo: You’ve been listening to the Before We Go podcast and if you would like to write to us please send us an email at the following address: hosts@beforewego.show. That’s all lower-case letters: hosts@beforewego.show. If you’ve enjoyed this podcast please remember to rate, review and share on whatever platform you listen. This podcast is copyright 2021 by Mainstay Ministries, Post Office Box 30, Wheaton, Illinois 60187.