David: Over the two decades I served as director of the Chapel of the Air. I had the privilege of doing any number of broadcasts with you, Karen. In my mind, you were always my best guest.

Karen: You have to say that.

David: You know, that issue being resolved. As I look back, the list of significant individuals who visited our chapel studio were really impressive.

Karen: Yeah, we were so privileged to meet those folk. One of these special individuals died recently. It was in March of this year. He was 86 years old. And this podcast, once you hear his voice and his passion for the Lord and his humanity. As David asked him his always insightful question, you’ll know that we’re talking about Luis Palau.

Intro: Welcome to the Before We Go podcast featuring Dr. David Mains and his wife noted author Karen Mains. Here’s David and Karen Mains.

Karen: Luis Palau was an international evangelist. His native language was Spanish. And in these two Chapel of the Air broadcasts, he’s obviously speaking English very well. These programs were originally aired on May 16 and 17 of the year 1979. And that’s 42 years ago.

Ted Sealy: Hello, I’m Ted Sealy. And if I were to tell you the name of the Argentine evangelist who’ll share the Chapel of the Air microphone this visit, I’m sure many years would perk up to listen. But I’ll let chapel director David R. Mains make the introduction and just add, we’re glad you’re tuned in. David.

David: Thank you, Ted. My guest today in the Chapel of the Air is international evangelist Luis Palau. Usually when you hear his name, you think of crusades in Latin America. But this visit will be talking about Scotland. What happened, Luis? Did your travel agent miss his booking?

Luis: Is that what? Thank you, David. And hello and hello to all your listeners first. I really, Scotland has been in my blood since I was born because my grandfather on my mother’s side was Scottish. And I went to British schools and I’ve always been in love with the British Isles, especially when I followed the Lord. The, you know, the spiritual interest of Scotland has gotten ahold of me. No, it wasn’t a mistake. It was step by step the Lord leading.

David: Now, having been there, you have a better feel for the land than the average person listening. I need to get you to kind of help. Otherwise, people will be like my son Joel the other day. He’s 10 years old. And he said, Dad, if I could go anywhere, it would be to Switzerland. I’ve always wanted to see the windmills. Now we need to help him get what Scotland is like. It’s a part of the United Kingdom.

Luis: That’s right.

David: And size wise, it’s about like South Carolina, because I look that up with about twice the population. Now you talk about the cities.

Luis: Yes, about 6 million people. And the big cities are of course Edinburgh, which is the capital of Scotland. Then there’s Glasgow, which is far larger with about 3 million in the greater Glasgow area. Aberdeen, 300,000. Dundee, about 250,000, close to 300,000. Perth, about 70,000. Those are the major big cities. There’s Motherwell with half a million, but it’s part of the larger Glasgow area.

David: I see. And the place where you’ll be concentrating during this initial time you’re there is Aberdeen.

Luis: That’s right. In the northeast, where the oil rigs are placed out in the North Sea, it’s a city that is booming right now because of the oil discoveries. There’s a lot of money flowing because of that.

David: Let me see if I can capture people’s imagination as to Scotland with just some thoughts that come to my mind. I think of the plaid kilts. They call them tartans. I think of bagpipes. I think in terms of mutton stew.

Luis: Oh yes, golf.

David: Golf, yes, St Andrews. That was where it started, isn’t it? I think of the Loch Ness Monster. At least that’s part of what the background of the country is. A little trill on the Rs sometimes as the people talk. I’m a Shakespeare fan. Macbeth, the setting of that is in Scotland. And then certain writers, Bobby Burns, Sir Walter Scott comes from Scotland, Robert Louis Stevenson, Sir James Berry who wrote Peter Pan. But now that’s just a feel. Let’s get some of the religious heritage of this land, which is great.

Luis: Well, yes it is. It’s a long history of Christianity. I do believe it was introduced by Colomba who came over by boat from Ireland. And brought the gospel to the island of Iona, which is in the northwest side of Scotland. Then running through history, I would say there were tremendous religious wars in Scotland, as you may remember. And it was partially political with a religious undertones, overtones, but it’s somewhat similar. It was 400 years ago to what is happening to Ireland today, Northern Ireland.

In a sense, it was a mixture of more politics than religion, but it played a big part. The name of John Knox, of course, comes to many minds. He was a tremendous politician. He was a tremendous lover of Scotland and a tremendous theologian. In four days they were able to put together a confession of faith that even today stands, although it’s been somewhat reformed, in four days they were in a hurry because of political pressure to have that confession. And he with three other men put it together. There were many people who gave their lives for the sake of biblical Christianity in the 1500s and 1600s.

David: Who are some of the more current names that come to mind, as far as Christian leaders that have come out of Scotland?

Luis: Well, you know that devotional by Oswald Chambers that so many people have read My Utmos for his Highest. He was Scottish. John Livingston, the great missionary to Africa. He also came from Scotland and one that many don’t know in America, but Frederick Arnott. He also followed in the steps of Livingston and he was a tremendous medical missionary to Africa too. A devotional man, Robert Murray McChain. He was a tremendous man of God. He died at 29.

Many of these great men died very young and he was a very holy man, a man who loved revival. And together with Andrew Bonar, as they pronounce it, we say Bonar here sometimes, but he and his brother, they became very oriented to scripture. They came alive. They were the fruit of the ministry of John Wesley. They were revived because of Wesley’s visits to Britain, although they lived later. And McChain saw revivals in his town in Dundee and another small town close to Dundee. So did Andrew Bonar.

He also had a great passion for the Jewish people and he went over to Israel, even in those days, to see the homeland as they would call it in those days. So these are some of the names that come to mind.

David: Give us a feel, Luis Palau, where Scotland is spiritually now.

Luis: David, that it’s often more cheerful to look at the history than to look at it now. Scotland also has been the home of tremendous theologians and great preachers, like Alexander White, Graham Scroggie in our day. Charlotte Chapel in Edinburgh is a well-known chapel. The situation now, David, is really quite sad. One minister said to me in Motherwell, a very well-known evangelical, he said, “Louise, the man’s is tired and I am tired.” And that would describe it perhaps better than anything else I’ve heard. There is a tiredness, an exhaustion in the church. The church of Scotland dominates the scene.

It has some outstanding leaders, not name leaders, but outstanding. Nevertheless, they are desperate because there are no young people in the churches, and that is almost a flat-out statement. Less than 4% of the population have been judged to go to church at all in any one given year. This is not just Sunday to Sunday. This is the percentage that attends church sometime during the year. The churches are empty. Only adults basically attend, older people. So the new generation has no idea of the gospel of Jesus Christ. They haven’t turned it off. They don’t know what it is.

David: What prompted you to go there then? Was this just a personal burden that you had?

Luis: David, I have always had a burden for the British Isles. The gospel came to me in South America through British missionaries. And therefore, I always felt I had a debt to them. And when the opportunity came, I didn’t force it. I simply took advantage of any opportunity that was given. Feeling in my heart since I was young, that someday the Lord would choose to use me, perhaps by His grace, to bring awakening to our generation. And that is our prayer that we should see an awakening, especially young couples, young people and children. There are almost no Sunday schools, David, in Scotland. Churches just do not have masses of children, much less young people, and no adults at all. Sunday school is considered children’s stuff and looked down upon. And even then it isn’t very vibrant at all. Therefore you get a burden when you love a nation. You get a burden to see the fire burn, especially when you’ve read about all these awakenings in the past.

David: Now, you’re well-known in Central and South America. Do you have that same advantage in Scotland, or are you a stranger coming in?

Luis: I am a stranger, especially to the man on the street. But even to the Church of Scotland, it’s new. Basically, some of the Brethren, the Plymouth Brethren, some of the Baptist churches, some of the Nazarene now know me. Of course, in the last eight to ten months, David, I have been there several times, and the Lord has been good, and the leaders have been kind, and I think things are getting around. Therefore, they’re beginning to know. It’s actually now become a nationwide movement, so that God willing, we should be going there next year to eight of the key cities, and therefore the doors are opening up. But I’m not well-known to the secular people. However, it’s beginning to break. The Lord’s beginning to answer prayers, and we have some unusual good reports to give you.

David: Now the first crusade will be in Aberdeen. That’s the first of the cities anyway that you’ll be in. Where will the crusade be held?

Luis: It’ll be in a soccer stadium. It’s a strange name, but it’s Pitadri Stadium. Pitadri has a tremendous soccer team. They call it football over there. The three of their players played in the World Soccer Cup last year in Argentina. They lost, unfortunately, to them to our team of Argentina. But it’s a soccer field, a soccer team, and it seats about 27,000, David.

David: So that’s going to mean a lot of preparation to get that many people out. How do you get them there?

Luis: First, we are praying and asking thousands, if possible, millions to pray. Actually, taking that stadium was an enormous step. I trusted was faith. It certainly was ambition for the Lord. For there are probably no more than 2,000 people attending evangelical churches in Aberdeen any given Sunday. 2,000 with a stadium of 27,000, David. There is no, you know, the proportion is enormous. So there is a lot of mobilization.

The Lord has been working in Aberdeen. We have two or three team members there. Two or three others are going to be going in and out. We must mobilize a few believers to bring the unbelievers. The Christians have never had a United Crusade before. This is the first experience in two generations. For the previous crusade there was with Tory in the early years of this century. And before that it was Dwight Moody visiting in the 1880s or so.

David: Goodness, do you feel personally prepared for the Crusades?

Luis: More and more. In the spirit, I feel prepared. As far as the message is, I am still looking to the Lord for the main emphasis of what the precise need of Scotland is. And so, yes and no. I need more prayer. I need the Lord’s wisdom a little time off to spend time with the Lord and thinking things through.

David: Luis, my feeling is that these next weeks and months Scotland could well be at a crossroads. These years in which we presently minister are significant far beyond what the average man realizes. In the spiritual world there is a great aligning of powers taking place between kingdoms and efforts such as what you are describing don’t just happen on somebody’s whim. If this offensive fails, I fear it will be some time before another of such magnitude can be mounted in that land. But whether such time is available, we really don’t know. So my prayers are with you, Luis Palau. Scotland is on my list and it’s in my heart these weeks.

Karen: We will merge quickly into the second of these two visits with Louise Palau. But let me just say that what happened in Scotland later took up one whole chapel visit when Luis returned to our chapel studio two and a half years later. So we won’t leave you hanging. That’s on our next podcast. Now here’s the second of the 1979 visits.

Ted Sealy: If there was a meter on your radio that registered levels of enthusiasm, I’m sure that today’s visit in the Chapel of the Air would have the needle jumping. Our director, David R. Mains, can get pretty excited about the subject of revival all by himself. But today his enthusiasm is more than doubled as he’s joined during this quarter hour by a special guest. I’ll let him make the introduction. David?

David: Thank you, Ted Sealy, and welcome, good friend, to this second of two sessions with my guest, evangelist, Luis Palau. Yesterday we began thinking plaid as we got a feel of Scotland, which is where you’ll be preaching these next weeks. Luis, do you ever have any fears of failure as you prepare for a major crusade like this in a land where you’re not as well known as in central or South America?

Luis: I’ll tell you, David, I do many times. I feel that old statement by Ethel Waters, you remember that one? God don’t sponsor no flops. You know, I don’t know if it’s adequate to express it, but it’s not that God sponsors them, but sometimes we provoke them if we’re not spiritually careful and wise. And that fear is with me. I believe that we’re humans and we just have to be aware of our limitations and of the body of Christ in its weakness. And in Scotland in particular, David, I do feel a tremendous burden. This is why we’re asking for more prayer than we’ve ever asked perhaps for any crusade, for we see the historical implications of the possibilities of this crusade in Scotland, whether it should be successful or a failure. Now, what is success and what is failure is another question. We feel that if the power of God is unleashed on the land, if the gospel can be preached to multitudes, if in my mind many hundreds come to Christ, that could be a breakthrough for Scotland where there have been almost no conversions. However, our prayer and dream would be that several thousand would make a commitment to Christ.

David: We talked yesterday about the stadium there. It seats how many again?

Luis: Twenty-seven thousand.

David: And your statement was that on a Sunday morning in the churches that there would be how many in attendance? Two thousand in evangelical Bible bridging churches. I’m thinking if I’m one of those evangelicals, how many people I have to invite on an average. So that’s fearful in itself. Are there financial risks in a crusade like this?

Luis: There are some, David. The local committee has been very devoted that way. They have set for themselves a budget that is about half of the true need of the crusade. The reason is that some of what they consider peripheral frills, from our experience, considered to be vital to touch a whole population with the gospel. So, they are covering the 50% of the budget very well. Their heart is in it and they really mean business and we’re very happy with that. And we have to come in with the rest. And this is exciting too, actually, to see it come in.

David: Usually when someone takes a major undertaking like this on, there’s the thought anyway the average man has that there’s a special anointing of the Holy Spirit on this person. And when they go in, they’re just very confident. It doesn’t matter what happens. The Lord is going to work. Do you sense that or are you still human enough to say, “I have fear yet?”

Luis: Yes, I think I can quote St. Paul and identify with him. I was among you with great fear and trembling, which does not imply distrust in the power of God. I feel both, David. I feel a confidence that the Lord is leading us there, that he is going to do something. And on the other hand, a sense of inadequacy that is very real.

And personally, yes, you must come with anointing. But in a sense, you don’t just take it for granted. I personally feel that for every effort, small or large, you must have that real sense of the touch of God upon your life, so that you walk in there not just as a man seeking to do God’s will, but as a man and a team in our case with a body that really has the blessing of God for this effort. I usually try, David, I’ll tell you this. I ask the Lord to give me a passage, a promise that seals it for me. And I do feel for Scotland, I have been given the passage.

David: I’d like for you to share that with us.

Luis: I’d love to do that. It’s Numbers 14:8- 9. And it says, If the Lord delights in us, he will bring us into this land and give it to us, a land which flows with milk and honey. Only do not rebel against the Lord and do not fear the people of the land for they are bred for us. Their protection is removed from them and the Lord is with us. Do not fear them. As you see, the reason I feel the Lord, laid it on my heart, is that the fear is there. And the word from the Lord is, If he delights in us, he will give it to us. In a sense, it’s to him. But he gives it to us to turn it back to him, to his glory. And this would be the need and the prayer that we would ask from the listeners of Chapel of the Air.

David: One of the interesting aspects of your ministry in Central and South America is that there has been a great amount of media coverage. Has that opened up at all for you in Scotland so far?

Luis: I have good news, David, and I’m glad I’m here today. Yes, you know, I think we chatted some months ago, and you know that the British Isles is a government run media. BBC is a government agency. Scottish television is also run by the government. And they have a policy where they have a very limited space for religion. It’s basically for the state established religion with a few breaks into the independent groups. Well, you cannot buy time. You’re either privileged to receive it freely or not. We had a call about three weeks ago in which Scottish television said, “Would you come on June 1 and tape a 26 minute interview? We will release it on June 3, a nationwide prime time across Scotland.” I’m thrilled.

David: That’s very exciting.

Luis: It is. And I’ll give you another one. I just got a call two days ago from the British Isles in which they said, “If you are willing to come on a certain date and tape in advance, we will give you five days, 15 minutes free at 11 o’clock at night across Scotland.” So we’re trying to arrange a special flight from where I’m going to be and all kinds of things in the British Isles. This is a breakthrough, David, and an answer to prayer.

David: Yes, very much. Very much. I’m thrilled. What a good thing. Well, the Lord is working in a special way. Actually, when is the beginning date? Has the crusade in Scotland for you?

Luis: Well, for me, the Aberdeen crusade will start on the 6th of June with a children’s rally. We’re going to put a lot of emphasis into children. Then on the 7th, we’ll have a great welcome meeting and a dedication of the stadium. And on the 8th, we start with the actual public meetings at the stadium. Colonel Jim Irwin, you know, who was in space. He’ll be there to give a witness on two days. We’re hoping to have Cliff Richard on the closing day, though this isn’t yet sealed, but we trust he’ll come. And so it ends on the 17th of June.

David: And that’s, you say it ends and that’s because the stadium contract finishes then?

Luis: That’s right.

David: And is it possible that the meetings could go on some way?

Luis: I have an open week following. If the Holy Spirit should be moving in power, we would certainly move in. The stadium is free. The contract ends on the 17th.

David: I see. In your wildest dreams, Luis Palau, what could happen in Scotland during the time that you’re there?

Luis: Well, now that’s a beautiful question because I dream about it often. If the Holy Spirit should decide to move in a mighty way, and if he should see that we are fit instruments to do so, I could see the churches coming alive. I could see the about 65 ministers who would say they are ministers of the gospel really catching fire. Paul Rees says, “Revival is evangelical knowledge on fire.”

There’s knowledge over there. If we could see the fire, that would be my first dream. And I would ask for that prayer from your people for that. Then I could see many, many young couples coming alive. I think this is the need of the hour and young people. If we could see three or four thousand publicly commit their life to Christ and catch on fire, fill the churches, I could see Aberdeen being the focus for opening up all of Scotland to the gospel.

And this is not too wild a dream. It is a prayer. But all of the British Isles responding to the gospel because of what happens in Aberdeen. I know they’re watching. Therefore, the dream would be that England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales would clamor for a fresh wave of evangelism. This would be the dream.

David: Actually, now Aberdeen is kind of a test then. This is the third largest city in Scotland. So that your plans are next year to be able to go to some of the larger cities yet, if Aberdeen seems to be responsive to the gospel.

Luis: Actually, David, we are committed to the other cities.

David: I see. So when you say other cities, you mean…

Luis: Eight of the major cities of Scotland. That includes Glasgow? Yes, it is centered on Glasgow and then satellite crusades, week-long crusades in seven other major cities. In Glasgow, it could be two weeks minimum. It could go up to three and we’re open to four, should the Lord work, which we expect. So we are keeping our calendar open.

That’s in April, May, and June of 80, three months all continuous. I understand. So what we must see in Aberdeen is a movement of God that will confirm the commitment of the other cities of Scotland. To see God is at work in our land. This is what they say. If God will move in Aberdeen, he will surely move everywhere else because the toughest of the tough cities is Aberdeen.

David: Can you give us a condensed feel of what you’re going to be preaching?

Luis: I feel I want to emphasize the felt needs of the Scottish people. There is an emptiness. There is a despair in Scotland, not a loud despair, a quiet despair, a sort of hopelessness. I want to focus in on the life and the hope that the living Lord Jesus brings. Also, I was encouraged by some British leaders to speak to the idea of masks, of wearing masks, of taking off the mask and being yourself, of not being afraid of exposing yourself to the Lord. And then David, I wish you would pray and your friends listening.

I want to speak. When I come to the decision point in the message, I have had to really struggle before the Lord. What is it that the Scottish people will understand when we tend to say, “You must receive the Lord Jesus into your heart?” Now, I will say that, but you know, I’ve come to this conclusion that the term where you make a decision, a vow, a promise to the Lord, gets through to the British people.

I have tested it on several occasions. It is in the inner psyche of the British people that I have made a vow unto the Lord. And I feel that’s, in many ways, what we make when we say “I renounce sin, I believe in the Lord Jesus, and I receive him as a savior.” The British people will respond to the idea. And I really am asking the Lord for wisdom on that. Good.

David: I’m asking our people who listen to be supportive of you in prayer as well. I think the average believer has a tremendous desire to be caught up with that which is significant. And at this point, as they identify with you in their prayers, in fact, some of our people I believe even in fasting, for Scotland, for this country, with such a rich background of spiritual things, they’ll be involved in that which is very important right now. Unfortunately, our time is up. God go with you, dear brother. May he protect you from the evil one, guide you in your thoughts, fill you full of his love, anoint you with his spirit, and grant that your faith be honored even in accord with our prayers.

Karen: Well, as I was listening to Luis again, I remembered how passionate so many of the Christian leaders in that day were for evangelism and for really carrying the gospel to other peoples. And I think we’ve lost some of that fervor. Perhaps we’re just out of touch. And then the dignity of the man. There were Christian leaders we really looked to for their personal integrity, their passion for God, and an anointing on their life that I’m sort of longing to see again in this day and age. And again, it may be my fault that I’m out of touch, but I’m not seeing it the way I would like to see it.

David: My feelings are similar. I’m just so grateful to have known such individuals. He was a giant of a man. And yet at the same time, a humble, humble servant of Jesus.

Karen: Very human, very engaging, just a lovely, lovely personality. We’ll hear from him again.

Outgo: You’ve been listening to the Before We Go podcast. And if you would like to write to us, please send us an email at the following address, hosts@beforewego.show. That’s all lower case letters, hosts@beforewego.show. If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please remember to rate, review, and share on whatever platform you listen. This podcast is copyright 2021 by Mainstay Ministries, Post Office Box 30, Wheaton, Illinois 60187.