David:        One of our favorite words is hospitality.

Karen:        And I am sure we are going to share a few of our favorite memories on that topic. So, stay with us, won’t you?

Intro:         Welcome to the Before We Go Podcast featuring Dr. David Mains and his wife, noted author Karen Mains. Here’s David and Karen Mains.

David:        Okay, we’re in a series of podcasts in which we’re revisiting themes we’ve talked about many times.

Karen:        In fact, the first book I ever wrote was Open Heart, Open Home.

David:        And you read it just recently, Karen?

Karen:        I did. And the subtitle is The Hospitable Way to Make Others Feel Welcome and Wanted. You know, David, as a writer, you think I’m going to be able to read through this. I’m going to go, eh, I’m so bad. But when I read it, I felt very moved that I was enjoying the reading and thinking, “Oh, that was a great idea.” I forgot about all of this. So, it was a really good review of our lives of hospitality.

David:        That book sold like everything, Karen, over the years.

Karen:        It’s been a million or so. It’s amazing to me, actually.

David:        On the cover, it says, X amount of books sold. But that had three publishers over a period of its lifetime. So, if you add them all together, yeah, it’s a big number.

Karen:        I’m grateful to God.

David:        Praise the Lord. On our last podcast, we were once again circling back to this theme of hospitality. And we may do that for a few more times before introducing another topic. And that’s because we believe that Christian hospitality goes a long way beyond opening just our homes to others.

Karen:        So, we’re going to sort of reminisce here a little bit about the lessons we’ve learned on hospitality.

David:        Hospitality, what’s your job and what’s my job usually? When guests come, say to the house.

Karen:        I try not to clean up before guests come. I’m trying to just clean on a regular schedule. So, I don’t have that kind of nagging it. I come up with a menu and prepare most of the food. But even with that, we ask people to bring things. We have a lovely little Thai restaurant that you have discovered and you’re buying it. If we’re too busy, we’ll just go pick up some Thai food and that really saves my energy.

David:        You’re the one who’s in charge of the food. And I’m the one who’s in charge of the conversation, if you put it that way.

Karen:        Yeah. That’s right.

David:        So, I think through who’s coming, oftentimes we’ll have more than just two people or one person, sometimes just a single person, but who’s coming? And what kind of questions could I ask that would be a helpful way of learning who they are? And seeing the value that they have for our lives, and we have for their lives. It’s a big job, not nearly as big as doing the meal, but let me give you some of the kind of questions that I’m thinking about.

I’d say “I’m going to start a sentence; you finish it. A day I could relive would be somebody I would like to meet and why. Blank is a skill I really wish I had.”

I’m thinking if somebody asked me that very quickly, I’d say “I wish I could play the piano.” My sister’s great at playing the piano. My dad was great.

A skill I really wish I had. A book or movie I found really interesting was.

Now I’m not going to ask all these questions to somebody, and I don’t necessarily write them on a sheet of paper and then say, okay, but they’re starters.

A country I hope I could someday visit because.

So anyway, they’re all interesting things.

Karen:        There’s another one that comes to mind that I think is appropriate for our age set. And it’s “Before you die, is there something that you want to accomplish that you haven’t accomplished yet? If I get time, I want to get to that.”

David:        That is a wonderful question. Nobody has ever asked me that, but I’m ready. I’ve thought about it over and over again. It’s a very current question, so good for you. Before I die, something I really want to still accomplish.

But basically, Karen, what are we saying here?

The hospitality, it involves the house, it involves the food, but it also involves our attitude about the people who are coming and what we want to get to know about them.

Karen:        Because hospitality is more than what we do, it’s more than a welcome. It’s a deep-seated attitude. And Scripture teaches this, that Christ is present in these encounters and that when we’re aware of that reality. Then that often changes the natural human tendency from being me, me, me, me, me. To “Let’s hear about what you wear, you and your world.” We’ve had fabulous answers to these questions, and we’ve learned a lot from different people.

David:        Let me just take it out of just the home. I think back when I was with the Chapel Of The Air, we did a lot of conferences with pastors around the country. Almost without exception, people would come and pick us up with the airport.

Karen:        Lay people, generally.

David:        People who were key in that church that we happened to be going to. They would come and pick us up and I had ministers who were traveling with me, and I was trying to say, “This is how we do it.” You just kept asking the person questions. I said, “Well, this person’s done us a great favor. They have come all the way to the airport.”

Think if we had to come off the plane, go to an area we don’t know anything about. Get our bags, figure out where we’re going to go. These people have gone out of their way to meet us at the airport. Pick us up and a lot of them had us actually stay in the home. I said, “It’s not that difficult and you know what?” I would say to the person who’s traveling with me, “They have probably never had someone just ask them questions about their ministry.”

Karen, down through the years, I’ve had time and again people say, “I remember the first time we met you. You ask us questions all the way from the airport. I had never had anybody do that for me before.” And I’m thinking what a gift this is.

And it’s become so habitual with us in terms of our lives that getting to know other people is something that we’re relatively good at and it’s not a routine. These are incredible people who are wonderful in terms of the service of Christ, and they deserve to be able to tell their story to someone.

Karen:        The goal of all of these encounters is to make the person with whom we are chatting feel that we are really, really interested in him or her.

David:        Yeah, not just feel that but know that. Let me see if I can put into a sentence where it is we’re headed, okay? Think of hospitality as a lifestyle you practice no matter where you are. That make sense?

Say it again. Think of hospitality as a lifestyle you practice no matter where you are.

And I think not only that, no matter who this person is, with our grandchildren and with younger people sometimes we have the opportunity to spend time with. I have run into something in this modern world that’s very difficult for me to get around and I’ve made a standing rule. If I’m with, say, grandchildren, I’m more than happy to take you out to dinner and we’ll talk but I have a rule. If I’m going to spend the time with you, and I want to do that, no cell phone. Because cell phones are a huge problem. Yeah, well they’re not terrible but they’re terrible if I’m wanting to spend time with my grandchildren or some younger person to have that cell phone.

And if you want to bring your cell phone, that’s fine but I’m not going to do it with you next time. Because they occupy your attention. I don’t know whether you’re listening, and I guarantee you I’m listening to what you’re saying.

Karen:        So, what we’re trying to get across here is this lesson that we’ve learned that hospitality is more than just opening your home to people. That’s a primary way we think of it. We don’t practice that enough. Particularly after these COVID years we need to reinvigorate that gift.

And then we have to understand that when we go into the world, we, as Christians with the Holy Spirit within us, are acting on behalf of Christ in the world. So, the things that he would do, the meeting and the greeting and the tender noticing and the, you just see it through all the Gospels. He was a man who didn’t have a home of his own. That meeting with people and including them and being interested in them is a gift of hospitality.

David:        Even what they said, they’re notorious sinners. They’re tax collectors. What are you doing Jesus?

Karen:        Particularly them. So, this is from Isaiah. The commendation to hospitality, I think if you said this in the last podcast, is all through the Bible.

David:        Yes.

Karen:        Old and New Testament. This is Isaiah 58.

David:        You’re reading from Open Heart, Open Home.

Karen:        I am.

David:        But also reading from scriptures.

Karen:        I want you to share your food with the hungry and bring right into your own homes those who are helpless, poor and destitute. Clothe those who are cold and don’t hide from relatives who need your help. If you do these things, God will shed his own glorious light upon you. He will heal you. Your godliness will lead you forward, and goodness will be a shield before you. And the glory of the Lord will protect you from behind. Then when you call, the Lord will answer, “Yes, I am here.” And he will quickly reply.

What a scripture.

So, I’m applying that scripture from Isaiah to our concept of hospitality is more than just inviting people into our homes. It’s welcoming the people we meet and greet. Maybe very casual encounters and being interested in them in a way that conveys this fact that God cares about them. Through my very human and often inadequate abilities to let them know that I am interested in them, even if they’re not in my home.

David:        It could be someone at the gas station. It could be someone at the dry cleaners. It could be somebody at the bank. Just as you’re doing a vacation, if you could go to the place that you’d really like, what country would you choose and why? I know that you have to be careful that there’s not a line behind you at the bank or whatever. But people they’ll say, “You know what, you asked me a question the other day. I was thinking about it.” And it just shows an interest in people. Karen, it can even go into spiritual things.

Karen:        Very fast because you’re a minister. That’s an advantage. And often they do want to ask spiritual questions about scripture or even share a disappointing and very hurtful circumstance that was caused by other Christians or by a church they were attending.

David:        Well, if you take it out of my neighborhood, a place where you can talk with people, even in the airport, I spent a lot of time in airports before. I don’t nearly as much now. I just can’t take it physically. I’m too old. But in those situations, again, you can open up time before you get very intimate conversations with people if you learn to ask questions. I think there are bad questions to ask. I would say in today’s climate here in …

Karen:        Political climate.

David:        Yeah. Don’t say who you’re going to vote for and why. That maybe end up being a good question. But it’s also a dangerous question.

Karen:        Yeah, it’s an intensive system. It evokes emotions that you can’t get through.

David:        I find when people begin to move it in that area, I’m very open to listening and to asking further questions. “Tell me how you came to that conclusion.” And I don’t think I have to agree with people to be gracious to them and to learn from them. I don’t have all the knowledge of the world in their areas where I have blank spot.

Karen:        A question I learned from our son Jeremy, who was our last child in our listeners know that he died of lymphoma almost 10 years ago.

David:        Yeah, he’s 42 years old. He died as an adult. Yeah.

Karen:        Jeremy was adept at learning other languages. Some people just have that ability. So, he was not hesitant if he could speak those languages to talk to folk in the language that wasn’t their native tongue.

We were in an airport, and we went to the window. There’s a little nook and there was a window so we could see how the planes were arranged on the outside. There were two black ladies sitting there. Jeremy stuck up a conversation with them and where you go, and they were waiting for a friend to come in. At that time, you could go in and wait at the gate. Then he said, “Are you church going ladies?”

David:        I’ve heard him do that too.

Karen:        Oh, my goodness.

David:        Yeah, that’s a wonderful question.

Karen:        Of course they were church going ladies. They were black ladies, and that black church has kept the soul of the black population living and thriving through these days. He has it as a whole issue has been evolving.

David:        I don’t know where you were going but I’ve heard you asked that of people yourself Karen. When you’re with strangers, “Are you a church going lady?”

Karen:        Were you raised in the church or where’s your spiritual status right now? Are you a practicing Christian or a Muslim? Well tell me more about your faith because I really don’t know that much about it.

David:        You talked about, I remember it’s a good story where the lady, she actually went at the end of the conversation, said in the airport, “Let’s pray together.”

Karen:        This was in California, and they were flying out from California to go home. Of course, we live in the Chicago area, so I had like a three hour wait until my plane went out, but it was taking off from that gate.

Sometimes they change gates but at that time it was taking off from that gate. I don’t even know how we got talking. I think I just stood beside her, and we did “When is your plane leaving?” Hers was the next one to go. And I said, “Yeah I’ve got to get home to Chicago.” She said, “Oh Chicago. I live there.”

And then we got her story that was fascinating. I mentioned that you were a minister, and she did infer certain things that indicated that we were both practicing Christians. So, they started to line up to go through the stand that you go through to get to the plane. And I think she said, “Well let’s just pray together. We’re sisters in Christ.” I said, “Here with everyone?” And she’s “Oh sure we’re not going to bother them.”

So, she put her arm around me, and I put my arm around her, and we bowed our heads and prayed kind of a prayer of blessing over each other. David, it was so beautiful. It was just one of those beautiful counters that kind of choked up now even just talking about it.

But when we’re open to people, when we’re open to be hospitable, then those things will happen, and we’ll take advantage of those moments. Today everyone is on their cell phone. I mean I was standing at a window waiting to get on a plane and there was another lady standing beside me. There was no chit chatting among strangers. They got their screen in their hand and they’re in front of their screen. So, that is cutting a lot of spontaneous kind of connections. But when that happens in your family or in a group that you’re close to it can ruin the whole dynamic of bonding and we need to be very careful how we use ourselves.

David:        We started out by talking in terms of in the home, but hospitality is a bigger thing than just the home. It’s a whole attitude that a person has. Think of it as a lifestyle you practice no matter where you are. You know I want to be a hospitable person, someone who not only welcomes you but on top of that does their very best to learn about you, to rejoice in terms of the things that you’ve learned in life that have been very good. And also to weep if there’s a need to weep because people go through very hard times. You know there are people in airports or on bus turnover or whatever who are hurting terribly.

Karen:        We’ve said this before we chose to move from the city where we had planted an inner city church, and it was interracial. We moved to West Chicago, which is about 27 miles up from the boundary line to the city itself. And we did that because as I studied the communities here, I was raised in Wheaton. It’s a wonderful community but it’s very wide. There’s in a whole lot at that time a lot of diversity in it.

So, I wanted the kids not to grow up thinking the world was all white, Anglo-Saxon and Protestant because it certainly is not. We have moved to a town that 58% of people live here who are Hispanic speaking. So, it’s an immigrant community in a lot of ways.

David:        You’re going to talk about the group that we were invited to be a part of.

Karen:        Yeah.

David:        It Is the only non…

Karen:        Non-Spanish speaking people in the group.

David:        They’re wonderful to us.

Karen:        It’s very kind to us. We’re sort of their adopted grandparents, which is wonderful. Just wonderful. But we did that intentionally so that we could be a part of a group like that. Learn about the immigration citizenship process here and have connections with these folks.

Well, they are just lovely, and I love to meet with them. They’re coming to the house this Saturday, but they don’t want me to fuss with food so they’re bringing all the food in which just makes it a delight.

David:        It’s good food.

Karen:        Good food. Yeah, homemade. But we do practice all of these things around the dinner table. All of these questions. We’ve gotten to know them.

David:        They’re very, very patient with us. It takes twice as long to have a conversation because they have to interpret for us or reverse. They will be warm and gracious and understanding and patient.

Karen:        Right, with us.

David:        Which is very good. In fact, they have asked me to give the devotional type of thing, and they’ve told me what they want me to talk on. And that means that somebody’s got to translate for me.

Karen:        Yeah, for them.

David:        They’re warm people. It’s great.

Karen:        So, what we’re saying is that hospitality is a lifestyle. It’s a spiritual gift. I mean there’s some people I believe who are really gifted spiritually by the Holy Spirit to practice hospitality and they’re the ones who can teach the rest of us what’s all about. That we should be conscious of this and be conscious of the fact that the hospitable Christ is the one that we are emulating when we’re meeting, greeting people in the world around us. No matter their background, no matter their native language, no matter what political alliance they’re making in this day and age either. Now that’s where a lot of friction and rancor is arising in our conversations. Who are you going to vote for president? It should not happen among Christians.

David:        I think that you can talk about political things, but you have to be careful when you do that you’re sure you’re listening and that you’re…

Karen:        …not just reacting.

David:        Yeah, I find that even ask people is a very open question. “Tell me who you’re voting for and why because I’m learning in my life.” I find when it’s over I say to myself that was very helpful.

I’m pretty well settled as to how I will vote when election time comes. But I’m also aware that I’m glad that it’s not just my vote that is going to decide the election because I really am not smart enough to say “Let me be the one who decides for our whole country.” I hear arguments on both sides. Okay.

Karen:        So, what we’re saying is this is an ideal time when there’s so much rancor in our political dialogue; to begin exercising hospitality, to warmly hear, be interested and curious about where people are coming from, but not to be reactionary. To ruin the possibilities of other sorts of conversations that are truly bonding or where we are in agreement that could come out of those political conversations if we don’t let it go into rancor.

David:        Okay. Think of hospitality as a lifestyle you practice no matter where you are. Okay, that’s saying it well and it’s not easy to do but there are also incredible rewards that come with it. I believe in those friendships stay solid and your understanding expands.

Karen:        So, David people may be wondering how they get open heart open home. And so, I went online and you can order it over Amazon but Thrift Books, T-H-R-I-F-T also is a website where you can get used books. I’ve ordered a lot of books through Thrift Books.

David:        More than that, we want you to pick up what we’re saying and just to make sure you didn’t miss it. Think of hospitality as a lifestyle you practice no matter where you are.

Outro:       You’ve been listening to the Before We Go Podcast. And if you would like to write to us, please send us an email at the following address, hosts@beforewego.show. That’s all-lower-case letters, hosts@beforewego.show.

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