David:     Karen, here’s a question I honestly don’t know the answer to, and I’m kind of interested in your thoughts. Okay?

Karen:     Okay.

David:     Mark Chapter 13 is Jesus talking about signs of the end times. This is verse 32: “No one knows about that day or hour,” He’s talking about when it’s going to be, “Not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”

How was it just during the time Jesus was bodily here on earth that he didn’t know? Or is it such a carefully guarded secret that even now only God the Father is aware of when this incredible event will happen?

Karen:     Tis a puzzlement for sure.

David:     Let’s talk about it.

Intro:      Welcome to the Before We Go Podcast featuring Dr. David Mains and his wife noted author Karen Mains. Here’s David and Karen Mains.

David:     Okay, Karen, do we agree that when the Lord was alive here on earth that he didn’t know the date of his second coming?

Karen:     It seems impossible, but then he had taken on the limitations of humanity. That was the purpose of God becoming man, to take on flesh and then to show us how you could live with the limitations of humanity. So, I think that’s probably right. He did not know when that time would come.

David:     So, his answers are amazing as to when these events would take place.

Karen:     He needs to look forward.

David:     The signs that he gave, yeah. This is Luke Chapter 21 and its verse 11. “There will be great earthquakes, famines, and pestilences in various places.”

This is some of what Jesus says. I just want to zero on that word pestilences. I looked it up in the dictionary. It’s any virulent or fatal, contagious, or infectious disease, especially of epidemic proportions. And then we don’t say pestilences anymore, but it gives the example of the bubonic plague that was all across Europe actually. I think it’s the 1300s that the rats have these manifestations of disease just wiped-out people.

Karen:     They had open garbage on the street. They didn’t have the collection systems that we do now.

David:     Instead of pestilence, if Jesus had said pandemic, it would have meant the same thing. A pandemic is an epidemic over a very large region. COVID fits that.

Karen:     Oh, absolutely. And I can’t remember in my lifetime, I’m 78, ever having a worldwide pandemic like this. So, this is unusual. And of course, it’s possible because of our globalization. There’s commerce from country to country. And we carry with us the germs or the diseases that have potential epidemic or pandemic proportions.

David:     I don’t think that the COVID problem is over.

Karen:     Not by any means. If you’re watching what CDC of this taping has kind of moved in and out of masking, because they’re not really sure of the data themselves, but we are going through another cycle. There’s no doubt with this variant.

David:     Not just America.

Karen:     No.

David:     I mean, we think of these signs as they relate to us as North Americans, but this is a worldwide thing.

Karen:     So, in terms of talk about the end of times and Christ’s amazing prediction about a pandemic, we really are in that in a way that we have not been in our lifetime that we know of Can identify anything like this before.

David:     I think it’s true. There are elements that Jesus talks about that are not there yet. One that’s being talked about. A great deal more is where Jesus talks about the rising of the seas. You hear that all the time now. So, what’s going to happen to the cities that are on the coastal areas?

Karen:     Those who are examining and measuring the effect of climate change are seeing undeniable rise in the sea levels. Well, now, whether that’s a cycle, something that occurs from decade to decade, they’re not sure of right at this point in time, but it is one of the signs of an ever-warming condition on our planet. So, they’re watching it.

David:     One of the things that Jesus says, I haven’t noticed people talking about, or my interest all of a sudden say, “Wow, that’s happening, is that Jesus talks about great signs from heaven?” So, he’s doing very well as far as saying what’s coming. And we just keep watching and waiting.

Karen:     So, you know that you have a grandson who is in astrophysics. Right? He’s had a master’s degree that’s being paid for in particle physics right now. And so, he and I have many conversations about astrophysics, about which I knew nothing. But I thought that if I were going to keep up with Nathaniel’s interest and study, I needed to allow him to teach me.

So, I’ve done reading and lay people’s terminology, and then I ask him questions. And there is apparent movement in the heavens. I’m not proficient enough to say what that is, but I have a conversation with Nathaniel. And if we ever cover this topic again, I’ll be loaded to talk about the things that they are observing in the heavenlies as far as differentiations that are going on now that are beyond our kin as lay people. But something is going on out there.

David:     I’ll talk to you more about that. I wasn’t prepared to hear you say that.

Karen:     Tell you about my ignorance.

David:     Christ’s followers would do well to keep in mind specific signs Jesus said would mark the end times. I don’t think that means that it’s an academic thing. This is a time when people, like ourselves, have to say we could be very close to this glorious event that has been talked about all through the ages.

Karen:     All through the ages of the church.

David:     How do we get people to hear that and implement it? That’s a big question.

In my own life, I have worked that out because every day I have two extended prayer times. And always as a part of that prayer time, I say, “Lord, it seems like we’re getting closer all the time to this great event taking place and the signs being fulfilled that you gave us.” I want to be able to say enthusiastically, “Let it happen. I’m thrilled. I couldn’t be happier.” I don’t know any reason why I would say like maybe in my earlier days.

Karen:     I haven’t lived my life yet.

David:     No, and it’s kind of scary to me. And I would say could you put it off a little while?

Karen:     What I would suggest that people do with this huge reality. We used to hear more preaching about this in conservative churches around the time of the Second World War and the days after that. I think I remember as a child hearing sermons on this, but not much recently.

So, I think for those people who say, “Well, I need to know more about this.” I would suggest that they really do look at scripture, the scriptures that you’ve been giving to them and quoting from.

David:     Let me just say that the easiest way to say “What should I be reading about those scriptures?” The Olivet Discourse, Jesus talking on the Mount of Olives toward the very end of his life. Those extended passages are found in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. There’s considerable overlap in those, but Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21.

Karen:     So, that’s the Olivet Discourse for those people who might not know or be familiar with that.

David:     John does not talk about this in his gospel, but you do have Matthew, Mark, and Luke, and then John has a whole book at the end of the Bible.

Karen:     A revelation that deals with it, right?

David:     Yeah, and I’ve done an extended series on that that are available through the podcasts that have been done before. Just to encapsulate what that series is saying is that the world doesn’t just go on indefinitely. It’s moving toward a showdown between the forces of evil and good, which evil wins.

Karen:     I got you.

David:     But only temporarily. And then Christ, in his own way, puts the whole world right and the kingdom is issued in and so on. There’s a lot of difference of opinion, Karen, as to what the second coming of Christ really is like.

Karen:     Theologians have discourse and argued and, you know…

David:     …and lay people do as well.

Karen:     Yeah.

David:     I don’t want to get into those arguments. I don’t even want to take time now to define them, but just let it be known that Jesus has repeatedly… that he is going to return again and his close followers, they echo that. He’s coming back. It’s not all over.

Karen:     And there was always attached to that the recommendation to be ready. An urgent recommendation to watch to watch for to be ready and to anticipate the fact that Christ would be coming again.

David:     Here’s my dilemma. If I say to people this is how I have done that in my life, during my two extended prayer times each day, I always talk about “Jesus I’m thrilled that you’re coming back, and I look forward to it help me to live in a way that is worthy of that great truth.” I am aware that not that many people are praying regularly So, that doesn’t resolve the problem. I have to say, “How do I come up with maybe a different suggestion?”

One, I don’t know if it’s any good. I do think that it’s characteristic of believers around the country to thank the Lord for their meals. So, they’re going to pray at least a couple times today just saying “Thank you for providing food for my table again.” Use that time to be a little different that become repetitive and say “This time as I bow my head, I just want to remind myself that you’re coming back again. And I want you to know that I’m in favor of this or I’m a little cautious about this.” You know… help me be ready but use those prayer times. I don’t know if that’s a good idea or not, but it’s a suggestion That’s different.

Karen:     Well, I think the integration of this concept needs to even start a little bit before integrating in into my prayer time. I think that what many of us need to do is say “How much do I think about Christ coming again? And how much am I eager for that to happen?” I think that for many Christians, it’s not a practical thought in their minds. And by practical, I mean one that affects the way that they live.

So, let’s examine first of all how much praying we’re doing, as people who say they are followers of Christ. And if we’re very lacking in that then we need to set up the disciplines of prayer somewhere in our every day, and I mean every day, not just once a week or casually once a month because we’ve heard a sermon on it that’s convicted us.

So, the question that we need to ask ourselves is how much am I praying now? I have to get to a room with how this yet, but I think I have some arthritis that’s developing in my back. So, I have lower back ache. It’s not pain yet, but it’s enough to say “Okay, I have to go lie down a little bit.”

So, I’m looking at that as a prayer opportunity. I lie prone in the bed, and I maybe put a heating pad on that part of my back that it seems to ease it and help. But this is a time where I’m being forced, if I look at it that way, to be a prayer time. So, instead of just lying there and reading and you know, maybe watching television, I’m thinking this is an opportune time that’s built into every day where I need to go to prayer. And I need to intercede for my family and our friends. But I need to also pray globally, pray for the world, pray for our country, as it goes through this pandemic of COVID.

And then, just pray that I will hold in my heart the fact in the reality that Christ is coming again. And then I say, “Am I anticipating this? Am I excited about it? If not, Lord then give me those feelings.”

You know, sometimes we have to ask him to give us the very feelings that we need to have in order to do good spiritual work. So, that’s become a regular prayer time. In the middle of the night, I generally wake at 2, and I know from reading the spiritual lives of saints that often those early morning hours were given to much intercession in prayer.

So, I do spend a good hour, a good hour and a half in prayer. And it can be praise. It can be contemplation of Christ. I’m trying to really have a reality, a personal reality of the person of Jesus Christ in my life. Not just an intellectual reality.

So, I’m saying to people, “What are the times in your lives that you can set aside for diligent prayer for others and for yourself? And then include in that time the thought that Christ is coming again. And just even ask him to give you that participation in that eagerness, filled where you feel when a family member who haven’t seen for a while is coming back home.

You know, it’s thrilled when our kids come back home. Well, those are the feelings that we should have when we think of Jesus coming again. And so, it becomes more than an intellectual theological reality. It becomes an emotional and psychological reality as well.

David:     That’s very helpful. Thank you. I have one other suggestion.

Karen:     Okay.

David:     As you hear the news, or as you read the news, keep in mind what Jesus said about him coming back again. You’re out the scientific aspects of these things. I read this yesterday in one of the magazines we get. Last month was the hottest July and more than a hundred and forty-two years of record keeping, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration reported. The global average was 62.07 degrees Fahrenheit edging out the previous record set in 2016. The last seven July’s rank is the seven hottest on record. Well, I don’t understand.

Karen:     It could be cyclical, or it could be a sign of the earth warming. We need to be open to.

David:     Yeah, but I know that as people talk about catastrophic things taking place in terms of the earth, they’re no longer talking centuries. They’re talking decades and years. And as those times come, how does that all fit into what Jesus is saying and people’s hearts are fearing, you know, the rising of the waters, that Jesus talked about, people very anxious because of signs like this. Your comments were very interesting to me. But just observing the news, put it back into what your deep beliefs are and what Jesus said, several thousand years ago as to signs of the end times and his imminent coming once again. I just think it’s one of those days. This is not something they’re just interested in because we’re curious. It’s something that Jesus told us to watch so that you’re not caught by surprise That’s the whole element of his desire for his followers. Anyway, Christ’s followers would do well to keep in mind specific signs Jesus said would mark the end times. How would you rate yourself in terms of a scale of one to ten?

Karen:     Well, I needed to participate in this podcast

David:     How would you rate it yourself before the podcast?

Karen:     I don’t know maybe three or four.

David:     Oh, I don’t think you’re that low. I know you pretty well. But it’s one of those areas where we have to increase our interest, while at the same time not become cookie in terms of this becoming an obsession that we can’t let go of. We keep our minds open, and we say, “All right Jesus, you’re the one who knows everything. Help us to understand your words and to live in such a way that we are the watchers in this generation. We’re not going to be taken by surprise. It’s a fascinating topic I’m glad to be alive and at the same time say, “Lord, help me not to be just stupid.”

Karen:     Well, that prayer is Lord Jesus come quickly. That I think is something we can all pray. Lord Jesus, come quickly.

David:     Yeah, you think we’re going to be different as a result of this?

Karen:     I think so. I hope our listeners are too. I mean, I think this is very timely, very timely discussion.

David:     Specific signs. They’re all around.  I think even talking about it beyond our conversation and people listening, it’s a good conversation for them to have with friends and those they’re closest to in terms of their walk with the Lord

Outro:     You’ve been listening to the Before We Go Podcast. And if you would like to write to us, please send us an email at the following address, hosts@beforewego.show. That’s all-lower-case letters, hosts@beforewego.show.

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