Karen:     It was a practice we really enjoyed doing.

David:     Not just individually, but as a family.

Karen:     Going on the God Hunt.

Intro:      Welcome to the Before We Go Podcast featuring Dr. David Mains and his wife noted author, Karen Mains. Here’s David and Karen Mains.

David:     So, Karen, what changed? Maybe we can figure that out because you aren’t doing that as much and I’m not either but that was a huge part of our lives going on the daily God Hunt.

Karen:     Well, I think that’s just life David.

David:     Life changes.

Karen:     It changes. We discover other things. This is a spiritual practice. We developed it so that our family would not be introduced to all the odds, and you must do the negatives attached to it. And so, there’s a wonderful principle called “What’s learned with pleasure is learned full measure”.

David:     I remember that now, yes.

Karen:     What’s learned with pleasure is learned full measure. So, we thought, why don’t we try and put the disciplines of Christian life or of knowing God into sort of a game? Can we devise a game that adheres to that principle?

Now, I don’t know if I did this before we talked about the God Hunt and began to develop it, but I had been kind of in various places of the world. And everywhere I went during this little time in my life, I was conducting a personal research project.

How many kids around the world have played hide and seek? I remember I was somewhere; this was in the States with a bunch of young teens and they were all in wheelchairs. And I asked this question of them, did you ever play hide and seek? How many of you have played hide and seek? Every single one raised their hand.

David:     That’s interesting.

Karen:     So that was sort of the framework for what eventually became going on the God Hunt and then we just kept developing it in our family and practicing it.

David:     It became a part of the broadcast and then the telecast and we shared it. A lot of times when I go to different places people still say, “I remember when you first talked about going on the God Hunt”.

Karen:     So, we made it into a book and we had a publisher who asked for that topic.

David:     Kind of, I think the person is being very intellectual. And they took the God Hunt book which was not intellectual.

Karen:     Yeah, well it had been printed before by another publisher and so they picked it up and used it and then returned the rights when they couldn’t quite push it with their young intellectual. Didn’t go as much as they thought it would.

David:     That’s funny. Let’s talk about what the game became as it evolved. Basically, there were four categories that helped us discover God’s presence in our world and this would be for quite young children. Even preschool age sometimes, up through, you know, you’re talking college and young adulthood.

Karen:     Sometimes the little ones do as well and even better because they have a basic belief system that can accept what is unacceptable to those people who may be more intellectual or learning to use their minds.

David:     I would say that our young kids taught us as much as we taught them.

Karen:     Yeah, they did.

David:     And their enthusiasm was wonderful.

Karen:     Yeah, they came home and said, “I had a God Hunt sighting today”. Their stories was wonderful.

David:     So, let’s name what we put into the book that we said that we see four distinct categories of what you’re looking for when you go on the God Hunt. So, let’s go through those categories and just kind of refresh people because Karen, something happened along the way and that we no longer talk about the God Hunt that much and we think it’s time to go back and pick up that discipline.

Karen:     For us as a couple to do that and hear that, to share with one another.

David:     Earlier this week we went to Walgreens, and we looked for a notebook that didn’t have any writing in it, but this could be our new God Hunt book for David and Karen.

Karen:     Yes, so we’re intending on resurrecting this in our lives.

Okay, first category, obvious answer to prayer. Now that makes sense, doesn’t it? Obvious answer to prayer.

David:     Sure.

Karen:     The problem with that is that most people don’t record or remember their prayers. They don’t have a mechanism which they can remind themselves that they had asked God for this. Now sometimes they do it without writing it down because they’re such a pressing need. But the first category is an easy one, obvious answer to prayer.

David:     It kind of came to me in a strange way because we have an anniversary coming. We have been married 62 years. I haven’t done a whole lot on our anniversaries the way I’d like. I said, Karen, I’m thinking about what I would like to do with you our anniversary weekend. And I would like to go to, and then I named a town in Illinois we had visited years ago. That’s Galena.

Karen:     It’s a very nice tourist town and it’s a place people can go and enjoy.

David:     It’s way up in the northwest corner of the state and it’s rolling hills. And it has this historical context in that it’s a hometown of General Ulysses S. Grant. So, you can go to his house and tour it, which was very nice. And they’re all kind of shops and restaurants there.

Karen:     Go to lakes and yeah.

David:     You said that sounds absolutely wonderful. We haven’t been there for years. Well, resurrect memories are going there when we were younger. So, I got on the phone and I called and the almost all the motels were filled. There were some that were a little bit open. They were talking 250, 275 at night. I’m thinking about what if we stayed three nights? You know, I’m not a cheapskate, but I’m also thinking that’s more than I had thought. I wonder if there would be an alternative thing that I’m missing. And I couldn’t think of anywhere. And then I made my prayer.

So, I’m back to our topic. I said, “God, obviously this is something I want you to help me with if you could please. And if you have alternative ideas, it’s beyond that wonderful one I thought of. I would like for you to reveal that.” And it wasn’t immediate, but later on that day, which is our week of the anniversary, there was the voice that said to me, “You know, you ought to go visit Craig,” your younger brother

Karen:     My brother.

David:     You haven’t seen him for a good while. He’s in Des Moines. You could drive there and on top of that, Mary, his wife has just recently had a stroke and he’s going through a difficult time. I thought, “Oh, it’d be wonderful to see Craig”. Craig is an ordained minister.

Karen:     And you and he has so much in common.

David:     Yeah. He’s one of the most complimentary individuals in the world. He’s huge in terms of warmth that he exudes. So, I called Craig and I said, “You know, we have the anniversary coming up. If we drove there to Des Moines, would you have the weekend free?” And he said, “Let me check.” And he went through and said, “Yeah, you know, I’d love to have you come on top of that. Don’t book a room anywhere because we got an extra bedroom.” And I thought, “Wow, I should have thought of this before, not so much because of the extra bedroom, but because how did I overlook that to begin with”?

Karen:     Yeah.

David:     And I immediately said, “Wow, Karen, I just had a God hunt.” We were back into terminology you hadn’t used for a long time. And that resulted in us saying, “We need to revive that in our lives. We need to practice that more and see God’s goodness to us.”

Karen:     Concurrently, I’ve been going through the things I’ve written because you forget what you’ve written. So, I started to read them, and I thought, “Oh, this is really good work.” And that first book I picked up was the God Hunt.

So, let’s go on. That’s obvious answer to prayer. The next one would be unexpected evidence of God’s care. I think that we often don’t feel that God is looking out for us or watching over us. And then all of a sudden something will happen.

David:     Something huge or something…

Karen:     It can be little or huge. You may be prevented from having an automobile accident.

David:     That’s huge.

Karen:     Or it just may be a little thing that makes you laugh, and you think, oh, there could only be God who knew that. I’ve had some flaws and I have a balance problem. Sometimes I get woozy in my head. So, I had this little nudge.

David:     Well, you told me when you came in, I need to get one of those canes.

Karen:     That has prongs, prongs on the bottom.

David:     Yes. You had said that to me a couple of days ago.

Karen:     Yeah. Well, I just swing past thrift store. And I parked in back and I walked through the store, and I couldn’t see, I came, those four pronged, they had four prongs on the bottom. Couldn’t see the cane. And then walked back and as I was going out the back door, sort of tucked in a corner, ha-ha-ha. The four-pronged cane. And it actually has buttons on the side with holes so you can adjust it to your height.

David:     That’s so God. You walked in the house and just kind of smiled and showed it to me and I laughed because I knew immediately that this was something.

Karen:     Okay.

David:     Yeah.

Karen:     Unexpected evidence of God’s care.

David:     Okay. Unusual linking or timing. That’s one of my biggest of all time, God hunt sightings. I was working at the time at Moody Memorial Church. I was the associate pastor. There was no pastor at the time. I was just a young buck. I don’t know how I ever got that job.

Karen:     Well, they needed a youth minister.

David:     And I said, I don’t want to be a youth minister, but if you’ll hire me as your associate pastor, I would do that.

Karen:     You did do the youth. They didn’t even have a room of their own.

David:     No, it was a wonderful time in our lives. Then they called a pastor after I’d been there about a half a year, and he had every right, and he was a wonderful gentleman, he wanted to bring his own staff. And I knew what that meant, and I needed to look for a place. And I decided that I would like to stay in the city. This was the white flight time when congregations were leaving the city, the white congregation.

Karen:     And then the churches were closing down, too.

David:     Yeah, and anyway, I got a school to agree that we could meet on Sunday in the school. And then right before we were to meet, they called me and said, “We decided this isn’t a good idea, and we’re sorry if we inconvenienced you”. Well, it put me in a real quandary.

Karen:     We had 27 people who were ready to start with you.

David:     Yeah, I don’t know if any of them ever showed up because we were very small to begin with. But here’s the story. “Where will we meet, Lord?” And so, I thought, I’m going to go into that neighborhood one more time and look and see if there’s anything for rent. And Karen, in the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, they had this marvelous auditorium, seated maybe 5,600, big balcony, not included in that 5,600.

Karen:     It didn’t have a stationery chair, so multi-use.

David:     Yeah, and in a pane on the door, downstairs, you had to go upstairs to get to where the big auditorium was. They had a sign that was about 8 1⁄2 by 11. I don’t remember it was handwritten or what. Maybe it was type, said hall for rent. I thought, “I wonder what that is.” And I went in, knocked on the door, a janitor came and let me in. I said, “There’s a sign out there that says hall for rent.” “Yeah, you need to see Louis Pike.” And Louis Pike was the head of…

Karen:     Teamster Union Local Level 7.05.

David:     7.05, that’s right. Yeah, he was something. So, I was issued into his presence. “What do you want, kid?” He said, yeah. And I said, “I’m wanting to start a church and I saw the sign.” “How much again, pay us?” And I said, “You know, sir, it’s your sign and I have no idea.” And I just looked at the auditorium. It’s perfect. I didn’t tell him we had 27 possible people who might start with us. We talked a while and then we went back to how much. I really don’t have any idea. “Well,” he said, “What this neighborhood needs is another GD, Protestant church. Anytime you want to meet here, kid, you can come and meet for free.”

Karen:     He also gave you free office space.

David:     I was there in that ministry before I went to the Chapel of the Air. I was there over 10 years, and we never paid a penny, not one penny. And talk about a God hunt sighting.

Karen:     I think that church grew to about 500 people.

David:     Yeah, they were wonderful years.

Karen:     It was an extraordinary time.

David:     Wonderful years, but I look back at that and I think how in the world, you know, all that anxiety I had. So that category is unusual linkage and timing. God could have put that sign in the window, you know, a month earlier. I would have said it’ll have agony, you know, but he didn’t.

But that day, the funny thing was, Karen, I got in the car, and I started to drive home. We lived in an apartment in Chicago. And then I turned around and I went back because I thought I’ll never be able to find that place again. I got to make sure, did I really live through that? Is that what he said to me? And oh, man, I still, I think about that. And what a wonderful affirmation of God’s presence and love on my behalf that was, you know.

Okay, we got one more category that we want to talk about. Help to do God’s work in the world. Well, a lot of these categories overlap.

Karen:      Yeah, they do some. That’s true. I have a short story on how to do God’s work in the world. We live now in West Chicago. We moved here deliberately. It’s 58% Hispanic speaking. It’s middle class, but a very high immigrant population. And we have a small group from this community. We are the only ones who do not speak Spanish.

David:     And everyone knows that.

Karen:     And everyone knows. So, they have to translate for us. Or someone else is indecisive and translate. But it’s a wonderful exposure and they’re lovely to us. Really lovely. Other cultures have respect for the elderly because so many older people do not make it to our age or even younger than that. So, we feel like they have kind of adopted us.

David:     Oh, they have. They’re fabulous. Yeah. You’re seeing that as a gift from God to us.

Karen:     But I’m writing about Jeremy and…

David:     Jeremy is our youngest son who died with cancer.

Karen:     From lymphoma. And one of his great passions was comprehensive immigration reform. He was great at it. And so, I have a living body of people who love us to interview and have them help me gather what I need to gather on this.

David:     Yeah. And what is the working title of the book that you’re presently working on? Yeah. Lessons learned from…

Karen:     Oh, lessons in love. Learned from a dying son.

David:     And a lot of those are conversations that…

Karen:     Are about immigrants.

David:     But as you went into Chicago, or he was in the hospital…

Karen:     He had started his own immigration service and was a fabby, this artist. I mean a really good artist. But he told his brother, the world has enough artists. It doesn’t have enough people who care for other people. So that’s the thing I’m working on. It’s helped to God’s work.

David:     You keep a prayer journal, and you must put some God-hunt sighting in the prayer journal.

Karen:     I put my prayers in there and how they’re answered. I just haven’t used that terminology for a long time. But I kept those prayer journals for 45 years. I have a shelf of journals.

David:     But we’re in the place where we’re seeing… We’re going to renew that practice in our lives. So, we now have a new notebook. Nothing in it. No printing, no writing, no lines, anything.

Karen:     It’s not pink either.

David:     No. And we’re going to renew that discipline in our lives.

Karen:     For us together to do it as a couple.

David:     I would think that whatever the size of the group listening to us, at least half the people have already heard about going on a God-hunt as we define it. They’re just being maybe reminded it might be good to pick up that practice once again.

And then for those who haven’t, we’re saying you probably need a little bit more help and better defined. And the easiest way to do that is to… You don’t have to buy a new book. You can actually get in the old books on the internet.

Karen:     Well, they have thrift books. That’s where I buy a lot of the books I get. And they’ll tell you what condition if there’s underlining. So, you can get a book like the God-hunt for $1.50 maybe. But the other thing is Amazon is the place where people can order books too. And I think we have the God Hunt on Amazon, but you can look it up on the Amazon.

David:     I’m pretty sure it’s there.

Karen:     And they’ll pack it up and ship it out to you.

David:     So we’re not hawking books because I’ve done that good part of my life and I’ve packed so many books that I finally said some time back, I’m not going to pack any more books.

Karen:     Pack and ship them as much as I tell you.

David:     Yeah, just too much. Anyway, having said all of that, we didn’t put it into a sentence. And we decided that for the first time, and we can’t remember how long, we’re going to say we didn’t put it into a sentence. We’re just going to say we said enough, and you should have understood what we’re saying.

Karen:     Thank you. Now going on that God Hunt. You’ll love it. What’s learned with pleasure? It’s learned for pleasure.

David:     There you go. How good. I’ll tell you one of the best God-hunt things in my whole life, Karen. Dean Wilson. He has become, oh man, just a friend beyond imagination.

Karen:     He’s way beyond friendship.

David:     Yeah, it is interesting. I don’t say it to be overstated, but he is one of the best of all the God-hunt sightings I’ve had in my life. And I believe, without any question, God brought the two of us together.

I’ve learned so much from him. We’re done now. We’re done talking. And then Dean will take all of our problems, edit them, edit the table when it’s all done, and people get to listen to it. We sound like we’re really fluid. Dean, I hand it over to you and I’m so grateful for who you are in my life.

Outro:     You’ve been listening to the Before We Go Podcast. And if you would like to write to us, please send us an email at the following address, hosts@beforewego.show. That’s all-lower-case letters, hosts@beforewego.show.

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