David:        In these days of world crisis, it’s easy to become a news addict.

Karen:        That means turning the television on first thing in the morning to see what’s happened. And as we’re recording this podcast, it would be what’s happening in Ukraine. And then last thing at night, you got the television on, watching to see if anything has changed.

Intro:         Welcome to the Before We Go Podcast featuring Dr. David Mains and his wife, noted author Karen Mains. Here’s David and Karen Mains

David:        Well Karen, you’re describing me. I’m kind of a news addict, I think. This has been a fascinating time, a time of really crying out to the Lord, you know, what’s going on. Staggering, staggering things that are taking place.

Karen:        Well, it’s easy to wonder what God is doing in the geopolitical situation that we are tracking with.

David:        And there are true heroes in what is going on in tragedy.

Karen:        Tragedy, unbelievable tragedy. You just weep. I mean your heart grieves for the people of Ukraine.

David:        Yeah, so anyway, what do people do during that time?

Karen:        Well, one of the things that we have talked about is that there’s nothing we can do, you and I, as normal average citizens about the geopolitical situation.

David:        No, we’re not in the room where it’s happening.

Karen:        Absolutely not. But we can remind ourselves of a spiritual practice that we began years ago when our four kids were small and we’re attempting to teach them how to find God in the everyday. Now one of the principles, and we’ve said this before, I’m sure in the podcast, was that “what’s learned with pleasure is learned full measure.”

David:        Which means in order to get the kids to listen, you don’t lie to them against the wall and say, “You’re going to get this whether you want it or not.”

Karen:        He makes it into a game.

David:        Yeah, a game.

Karen:        And so, what we did with recognizing God in the everyday, which is one of the great grand principles of mature Christianity. One of the signifiers that you really are integrating your faith, what you say you believe with the way you live, is going on the God hunt. I’ve got the book in front of me, the Going on the God Hunt book.

David:        This is your book.

Karen:        This is my book.

David:        It’s an inter-variety publication.

Karen:        Yeah, but it was written out of the grain and fabric of our lives together.

So, what is the God hunt? It’s the question that’s asked on the cover flap copy. It is choosing to recognize God anytime he intervenes in our everyday lives. Now that’s simple to understand, but because people don’t practice this, they haven’t made it a spiritual discipline. They don’t experience the fact that God is indeed working in a variety of ways in their lives every day.

David:        So, we tried to simplify this, and we came up with four categories. They’re not the only categories, but they’re a good way to jump into the practice that we’re talking about when we use that term “going on the God hunt.”

One, we’re looking for, say, an obvious answer to prayer. I mean, that’s God working. It didn’t just happen. You prayed about it and God answered it in a profound way.

A second category would be unusual linkage or timing. The amazing way that worked out and you couldn’t question what that was all linked together.

Karen:        And we often hear ourselves saying, “What a coincidence.” And we sort of believe there is no such thing as a coincidence but go ahead and tell the other category.

David:        Okay, unexpected evidence of his care. Didn’t even pray about it. You know, just there was God saying, “I’m covering you.”

Help to do God’s work in the world. Maybe you’re in the writing situation or I think of myself putting together a message of one kind or another and need a closing illustration. And then somebody calls you on the telephone and they tell you a story and why in the world did they do that? I don’t know. In fact, it just came up as part of the conversation.

Karen:        Exactly what you did.

David:        Wow, yes, it was there. So those are the categories.

Obvious answer to prayer.

Unusual linkage or timing.

Unexpected evidence of God’s care.

Help to do his work in the world.

I would give just an illustration in terms of our own life.

Karen:        Ok.

David:        Is that okay?

Karen:        Yeah.

David:        We live relatively frugally, I would think. I don’t think people wandering around would say those guys…

Karen:        They’re really high on the hog. What a funny phrase that is. High on the hog.

David:        That’s not who we are anyway. We’re very satisfied in terms of our lives. I don’t know that I’m a prophet, but I think, prophetically. What are God’s thoughts to his people at this time? I would say that the prophets live pretty simply. They’re not looking after just the niceties of life.

Karen:        Or acquiring more and then more and then more and others.

David:        Yeah, God has always provided our needs and we’ve been happy looking back on our lives because we’re getting elderly. Well, we are elderly.

Karen:        No doubt about that, dear.

David:        We would say God is good.

Karen:        He’s been faithful.

David:        All the time. All the time. Anyway, the God hunt. What it does makes you aware of his presence in your life.

Karen:        And one of the things that we do recommend, let me insert there right now, is that people begin to keep, if they’re not already, begin to keep a prayer journal record.

David:        Or in some way record. You keep a journal.

Karen:        Yeah, I recorded it. You pray with a pencil.

David:        And I pray on a sheet of paper, and I write down my God hunts and then I just toss those pieces of paper away. I don’t save them.

Karen:        Yeah, whereas I have volumes.

David:        Yes.

Karen:        Volumes of them. And I’m starting to go through them again, thinking I will toss them, so we don’t have a whole shelf or things if we die, the kids have to go through. And David, it was so moving to go through those journals starting, I don’t know, 40 years ago. I just think I can’t throw them away because it is a historical record of all the ways God has intervened in our lives in all of those areas, those four categories. And I just hate to toss it because it’s a testimonial to His greatness and involvement in our lives.

David:        I’m too old to start the journal, but I wish I had done it your way.

Karen:        So, let’s just talk about those categories and give some particular examples of them.

David:        Well, I’ll talk about something that happened just recently. And it would fit very nicely into that unusual linking or timing. People are very gracious to us.

Karen:        We’ve lived on the donor dollar. I mean, that’s what we’re dependent on.

David:        But we’re paid a very adequate salary.

Karen:        Right. But money has come all of our lives. Basically, since we left the pastorate, donors who’ve been faithful and generous and kept our ministry going.

David:        Support the ongoing ministry. That’s correct. And I’m overwhelmed by how people are gracious in that. We are at the place where we in our home, we’ve been in the same home for over 40 years and a lot of the appliances are getting older. The dishwasher doesn’t wash the dishes quite as well as it used to. The refrigerator, the stove, then some of the floors.

Karen:        We needed to do some house remodeling. Nothing great. The carpeting had been down for 40 years in the living room and dining room. And that needed to be taken out of that, meant new floors and sub-flooring had to be laid. So probably our home is the only inheritance that our kids will get. We want to get it in good shape. So, if we need to sell it, we could sell it. It would be ready to sell. Or if we pass, then the kids can…

David:        So, we were starting to think we need to make some improvements.

Karen:        Improvements.

David:        That’s a good point. I got a letter from people we’ve known for quite a while. And I opened it up and I said, “Oh my goodness.” It was a letter saying t”This check is for you”

Karen:        For you and Karen to us.

David:        It’s not a donation ministry.

Karen:         Not for the ministry.

David:        Yeah, not for the ministry.

Karen:        You don’t have to pay taxes on it because of the way It was given through a foundation of I’m not quite sure how but that was what the letter said.

David:        I called you downstairs and it kind of took your brother…

Karen:        He sure was flabbergasted and then I became flabbergasted.

David:        I would say I was bamboozled. Karen, I wrote a thank-you letter to the people because it was exceptional what they did. Then I felt later I should write another letter. So, I did I wrote a second. And now I think I want to write a third one because it’s dawning on me what a huge difference this has made in our lives. It’s just so kind of these people. So, that’s something that I didn’t pray for it.

Karen:        So, what category is that?

David:        Well, I think that’s in the unusual linkage or timing.

Karen:        And I think that oftentimes, as I mentioned before, we think of these things as coincidence. Or sort of stand beside it and say my goodness what a coincidence. We needed things done and someone gave us a sizable check not knowing that we needed those things done. But in Christians’ lives, there is no such thing as coincidence. God is divinely ordering our days. He is caring for us. And I think he’s got a squad of angels for the Mains, that take care of our needs. So, that’s not a coincidence because God has taken care of us before we even knew what we needed to be taken care of in a way that was just amazing.

David:        Yeah, and Karen, when we talk about what’s happening in terms of nations of the world, I have a difficulty trying to even pray. My mind is not able to get around it all even though I do my best. But when I look at my personal life, I’m just staggered by how good the Lord is and how often I’ve been able to say that’s an obvious answer to prayer. That’s unexpected evidence of his care. That’s helped to do God’s work in the world. And that puts me in a situation where I say, “God is still in control.” He’s a wonderful God on the micro and in the macro.

Karen:        Yes, it’s exactly true. So, okay, let’s finish going through those

David:        Well, you in your book gave some amazing illustrations. So, why don’t you do one and then I’ll say this is the category it fits into. I think they’re almost all miracles in some ways

Karen:        In the God hunt book which we purchased all the remainders of the book. So, it’s available to our listeners if they want to write in. And for any size donation would be happy to send them a copy though.

I took stories out of our lives and then I took stories out of the lives of our friends who contributed to the book. But let me read one out of our lives.

One of my great difficulties in life is being able to find handymen we can afford. My husband, David Mains, is not a home improvement guru.

David:        Did you have to put that in there?

Karen:        I think a lot of people identify with this, David, and I have limited capacities in household repair. We had an outside outlet that was not working on the outside of the house. So, I couldn’t plug in Christmas lights or power lawn equipment. I’d asked for workmen to fix this, but they had always overlooked my request. And when we had people do that, we fixed that outlet. Perhaps it’s because they weren’t electrical themselves.

One morning as I was cleaning out a drawer, a business card fell on the floor. And it reminded me that a friend had told me her husband was doing freelance electrical work while she was attending seminary. So, I made the phone call and that morning he came over, fixed my outlet and charged me $50. An amount I was more than willing and able to pay. Isn’t that great?

David:        Yeah, so that’s kind of a linkage in timing in some ways. It’s also evidence of God’s care. Give me another illustration.

Karen:        Well, this was written by Marion Oliver who was on our Mainstay staff. She was one of our top editors in charge of the editorial department. When we were broadcasting and telecasting and running pastors’ conferences all over the country we needed that kind of staff.

So, she experienced a profound intervention in the timing of her father’s death. Living in Maryland, he called on a Saturday to tell her that he was having side effects from the radiation therapy for prostate cancer. “If I ever needed you to come, now’s the time.”

Though she was scheduled to attend one of our pastors’ retreats, she was able to fly out to her parents’ home on Monday using free passes from a friend who was a United Airlines employee. About five hours after she arrived home, Marion’s father suddenly died.

David:        I remember this. Yes.

Karen:        She says, “I saw God at work and moving my heart to go and allowing me to get there before he died because if mom had had to face this situation alone with her advanced Alzheimers I can’t even imagine what she would have done or how the situation would have been handled.”

I just can’t imagine. So, is that extraordinary?

David:        Yeah.

Karen:        Linkage and timing on that one for sure. I mean goodness, what an extraordinary story.

David:        And what we’re saying for people to respond in the way we would like, is that they start getting into the practice of noticing this. Looking for them writing them down.

Karen:        I would seriously recommend that people begin to keep a journal that they keep. Because in the moments when you beginning to doubt if God even knows you exist or moments when you’re doubting that he loves you or bad things happen, you can go back to those journals and read how you have identified his work in your life. And that will build your faith with the difficult trials that we all go through. And you don’t see God’s hand right away. But you will find them once you start looking for them even in difficult trials. But anyway, a journal encourages us to do that.

David:        You had one very fascinating story about the parents who had argued and that turned into a violent situation.

Karen:        Yeah. Let me see if I can find that. Okay, I have it here.

An atheist couple raised their child in a godless home. The daughter had never heard about church, about Christ, or about a Heavenly Father.

One night when she was five years old, just a little girl, the parents fought violently with each other. And the father took a gun and shot the mother. Then he turned the gun to himself and pulled the trigger. And this was in front of this child. And of course, the child was horrified. I mean that’s a trauma of high proportions.

The traumatized girl was placed in a Christian foster home. When the foster mother took the little girl to Sunday school, she told the teacher that the girl had never heard of Jesus, was in great pain and to have patience with her.

During class the teacher held up an illustration of Jesus and said, “Does anyone know who this is?” The orphan child raised her hand and said, “I do. That’s the man who was holding me the night my parents died.”

David:        You write that, Karen, in the book, the God hunt and it’s so striking. I think all God hunts are striking in their own way. You just say, “Wow.”

Karen:        Yeah, they’re extra ordinary.

David:        It’s going to take your breath away. Let me go back to that sentence once again. In these troubling times, when people might wonder what the divine is about, going on a daily God hunt is one of the best spiritual disciplines to put into practice.

So, we’re saying in this time, where those of us who are just normal human beings don’t really have Insight that much as to what is going on, we’re not in those meetings when the president meets. Probably couldn’t even understand right the complexity of it all, but it doesn’t mean God isn’t working.

Karen:        Yeah. So, let’s go to scripture, because scripture is full of God interventions. But the psalmist says, in Psalm 139, “Whither shall I go from thy spirit? Or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend into heaven, thou art there: If I make my bed in hell,” Really, isn’t that what hell is in terrible places?

“…thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; even there thy hand shall lead me, And thy right hand shall hold me. If I say,” we have moments when we despair. “Let only darkness cover me; and the night about me shall be light. Even the darkness is not darkness to thee; But the night as bright as the day: The darkness is as light with thee.”

Wonderful, isn’t it?

David:        Yeah. You have one more story?

Karen:        I do. I have so many.

David:        Don’t quite do it yet because I’m not sure whether we have someone on the line who’s just a little nudge and they’re going to say, “I’ll do that to God.” What if I try it and can’t find anything?

Karen:        I guarantee you will. Okay, so this is a story that was sent in.

Catherine Gagayan from Bangkok, Thailand tells about her senior year in college when there was no money to pay for her schooling. Her father had instructed her to return home but she was determined to find a way to finish school and receive her bachelor’s degree. If only she could find one of the faculty families to who took students into their homes, but with the term only one week away those boarding opportunities were filled. Catherine spent a day in prayer and fasting.

David:        Oh, bless her.

Karen:        Making her way across campus at sunset, she came upon one of the staff on horseback and his name was Papa Javier. So called because of his kindness. The rider paused his horse to chat a little and the student told him about her search for a way to stay in school. “Oh,” he replied, “stop by my house tomorrow and let’s talk with my wife.”

The next morning, the young woman visited the couple, and they explained to her that they were allowed to house three students. There was still one slot left that they would gladly reserve for her. Grateful. Catherine did mention how fortunate she was to meet Papa Javier the night before. To her amazement he said, “I didn’t meet you last night.” Though she reminded him of their encounter, he insisted it hadn’t happened.

Reconstructing the meeting in her memory, the young woman recalled that because it was almost dark and the rider was wearing a hat, she had never clearly seen his face. Only the shape of his strong body and horseback. Catherine could only conclude that God had cared about her dilemma enough an angelic messenger to guide her to the loving care of the Javier family.”

Oh, what a deal

David:        Goodness, how do you top that?

Karen:        We can’t.

Outro:       You’ve been listening to the Before We Go podcast. And if you would like to write to us, please send us an email at the following address, hosts@beforewego.show. That’s all-lower-case letters, hosts@beforewego.show.

If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please remember to rate, review, and share on whatever platform you listen. This podcast is copyright 2022 by Mainstay Ministries, Post Office Box 30, Wheaton, Illinois 60187.