Karen:        Looking back on your life, have there been times when you felt God spoke to you?

David:        Answer is yes and no.

Karen:        What kind of an answer is yes and no? Which is it?

Intro:           Welcome to the Before We Go Podcast featuring Dr. David Mains and his wife, noted author Karen Mains. Here’s David and Karen Mains.

Karen:        Let me repeat my question. Looking back on your life, have there been times when you believe God spoke to you?

David:        I’ll give you an illustration, Ok? Way back in my life when I was in my later 20s. I sensed because there was a white flight in the city we’re closest to. At that point it was in Chicago, we were living in the suburbs. A lot of the church people, especially Caucasian people, were moving out of the city and establishing new congregations in the suburbs. I felt very strongly that God was calling me to go back into the city and establish a church.

Karen:        In fact, you’d actually had a church in downstate Illinois. You’d preached in it, and they’d called you to be pastor down there.

David:        Yeah, so it was more than just a casual thinking through. I had to respond to that church. It was a good size church. It would have been a fine church, but there was this inside nagging that says, “They need people like you, they being the cause of Christ, people like you to go against the tide.”

Karen:        And you happen to, I don’t remember exactly how it happened, but you did get a call to come to a large traditional church in the city, I mean, the city of Chicago, because they didn’t have a senior pastor.

David:        The Moody Memorial Church, they came out and, well, that would get me into the city. So yes, there are times when I’ve had that happen. That’s just the one that kind of pops, in my mind. What about you, Karen?

Karen:        Yeah, I would say that in a lifetime of having been a Christian and attempting to mature as a Christian, I can think of quite a few times when I felt like the Lord definitely spoke to me. In fact, I remember him waking me in the middle of the night. Someone was calling my name, “Karen, Karen,” like that. And I thought, “Well, can this be the Lord?”

Is it just a dream. And I got up and got my scripture and my prayer journal. He really did deal with me at that point in time. So, I think that this does happen in our lives.

David:        Okay, we’re going to talk about it. And I would like to go to one of my favorite scriptures. And this is out of the Old Testament. And it gives one of those times, and you started by saying, “God ever spoken out loud to you?” And I said yes and no because it was as clear as though he had said something out loud. But I’ve never heard God’s voice. I think it’s scared the jeepers out of me.

Karen:        Well, I agree with you. It was an inner urgency. Somebody calling my name inwardly. I don’t think anyone else would have heard it but myself.

David:        This is the book of First Samuel. And it starts with the story of a husband who has two wives. They’re not related. One of them has children. The other one doesn’t.

Karen:        It was barren, which was a terrible thing.

David:        Yeah, it was.

Karen:        Oh, it’s a terrible thing at any time in history, but particularly then.

David:        This is First Samuel. The one wife was very, very distraught because the wife with children had a number of them. And she made fun of the one who didn’t have it.

Karen:        She held it over the one who was barren, yeah.

David:        Elkana was the name of the man. And the two women are named Thanana and Hannah. Hana is the one who doesn’t have any children. Hannah is praying, okay? Eli, the priest, is kind of overlooking what’s going on. He’s not a holy man. He is the head priest. His life is not very good. In fact, he has two sons who help him in the priesthood and they’re very wicked sons.

Hannah is praying out of the bitterness of her soul. And she made a vow saying, “Lord Almighty, if you will only look upon your servant’s misery and remember me and not forget your servant, but give her a son, then I will give him to the Lord for all the days of his life.” And as she’s praying, she’s in deep agony. And the priest Eli sees her. He says, “Why would you come here when you’re drunk?” And she said, “I’m not drunk. I’m just terribly burdened of spirit” and so on.

And then she shares what is happening. And he says to her, “A year from now, your prayer will be answered in the positive and you will have a son.” And she leaves taking that as a word, not only from Eli, but from the Lord.

And, on the whole, that’s exactly what happens. And she is so pleased, and she keeps her word.

Karen:        Which is a hard thing to do. It’s sort of a remarkable story as well.

David:         I don’t know. When is a child weaned? I don’t know. What would the age be?

Karen:        Well, in those days, I think they breastfed a lot longer than you would do here. So, I’m thinking, could it have been one year old, one or one-and-a-half? I don’t know for sure when that happens.

David:        Probably he’s at least walking. Because she says, “Okay, now I need to give the child to the Lord.” And his name is Samuel. He’s quite a remarkable person.

But anyway, she makes a little outfitting to where the priest is, which is a different location as far as where he’s living. And she basically gives the child to the Lord in that sense.

And then you have this raising by Eli, a priest who’s incompetent in a lot of ways. The young boy has learned how to be a priest.

Then the story begins to be picked up once again. This is chapter 3. The boy, Samuel, ministered before the Lord under Eli. And in those days, the words of the Lord was rare. There were not many visions. And then we have this beautiful story, which you’re aware of and I am, but I’ll read it anyway.

“One night Eli, whose eyes were becoming so weak that he could barely see, was lying down in his usual place. The light of the Lord had not yet gone out. And Samuel was lying down in the temple of the Lord where the Ark of God was. Then the Lord called Samuel and Samuel answered, “Here I am.” And he ran to Eli and said, “Here I am. You called me.”

“No,” he didn’t recognize that it was the voice of the Lord. But Eli said, “I didn’t call. Go back and lie down.” So, he went and lay down.

And again, the Lord called Samuel, and Samuel got up and went to Eli and said, “Here I am. You called me.” “My son” Eli said, “I did not call. Go back and lie down.”

Now Samuel did not yet know the Lord. The word of the Lord had not yet been revealed to him. The Lord called Samuel a third time and Samuel got up and went to Eli and said, “Here I am. You called me.” Then Eli realized that the Lord was calling the boy. So, Eli told Samuel, “Go and lie down. And if he calls you say, ‘Speak, Lord, for your servant is listening.’”

So, Samuel went and lay down in his place. And the Lord came and stood there calling as at the other time, “Samuel, Samuel.” And then Samuel said, “Speak, for your servant is listening.”

And the Lord said to Samuel, “See, I am about to do something in Israel that will make the ears of everyone who hears of it tingle. At that time, I will carry out against Eli everything I spoke against his family from beginning to end. For I told him that I would judge the family forever because of the sin he knew about. His sons made themselves contemptible. And he failed to restrain them. Therefore, I swore to the house of Eli, the guilt of Eli’s house will never be atoned for by sacrifice or offering.”

Samuel lay down until morning and then opened the doors of the house of the Lord. And he was afraid to tell Eli the vision. But Eli called him and said, “Samuel, my son.” So, Samuel answered, “Here I am.” “What was it he said to you?” Eli asked, “Do not hide it from me. May God deal with me. Be it ever so severely if you hide from me anything he told you.”

So, Samuel told him everything, hiding nothing from him. And Eli said, “He is the Lord. Let him do what is good in his eyes.”

And then this last paragraph, “The Lord was with Samuel as he grew up. And he let none of his words fall to the ground. And all Israel from Dan to Beersheba recognized that Samuel was attested as a prophet of the Lord. And the Lord continued to appear at Shiloh. And there he revealed himself to Samuel through his words. And Samuel’s word came to all Israel.”

A fascinating story of this young man. Having said that, you just picture this, in your mind, what has happened this young boy. I’m envisioning him being maybe 7 or 8 years old. Well, he had to be old enough to understand what was going on and understand this was not going to be a good message for the priest. And yet that’s what became a part of Samuel’s life all through the days. He was a judge in Israel and a priest as well. He was going to say what God said one way or the other.

Karen:        So, I guess the question that we take out of this scripture is, “Does the Lord speak that way to the people in this church of this contemporary age?” And I think as we’ve listened to the personal testimonies of many leaders that we’ve known are the ones that led us to walk in faith. There have been times in their lives when there was this accounting, this reckoning that it was more of the Lord has a particular calling for me in my life. I think that’s pretty common in at least among Christian leaders, but also among the laity. I can think of times where you definitely heard your name. I remember we were, I think in the apartment in Chicago still, so we were early in our ministry. But I heard the Lord wake me from sleep, “Karen, Karen,” with urgency like that.

David:        You would have been a young adult.

Karen:        I was young at my 20s. We were raised in very fundamental Bible believing, Bible preaching churches. And I’d actually memorized seven books of the Bible word perfectly for youth for Christ quizzing. I mean, I’m very grateful for that exercise in my life.

But I got up and I said, “I’m here, Lord. Why are you calling my name?” And there was not a verbal revelation, but an inward knowing that he had something that he was calling me to do. And at that point it was to develop a deeper relationship with Him in my life.

So, it would be interesting to hear a group of people who’ve been Christians shared those times when they did hear, either through a preacher who was preaching and they were deeply, deeply moved.

David:        That’s a funny thing because that happened to me this last Sunday in church.

Karen:        Okay, tell us.

David:        Our pastor had been on sabbatical for I think he was gone three months. And he came back. And he was joyously thanking the congregation.

Karen:        He’s a beautiful young man.

David:        Yeah, he is. He is really special. And he talked about how he didn’t realize how burned out he was. And now in that sabbatical time there was a great renewing of the presence of the Lord in his life. And he said that may be where some of you people are. And then he did something that surprised me. He gave an invitation. You’d like to see that joy returned in that sense of God’s presence. He wasn’t offering to pay for anybody’s sabbatical, but he was talking to me and he said, “Would you come to the front, and we’d like to pray for you.”

And I thought I’ve gone forward at the service where I don’t know how long. If someone’s going to pray to me, I’m tired and I’m older and I keep going on because I think the Lord still wants me to be active in his service, and I see that as a high honor. But I thought, “Boy I’m going to go to the front.” And I thought, “Who me?” And I thought, “Yeah no question.”

So, I got up and went down to the front and I thought this is unusual for me. And it’s not a life-changing thing but it was a “Wow if you have something for me, I like that.”

Karen:        So, he laid hands on you and there were several…

David:        …places where people could go, and others did come up.

Karen:        I always did come up, so he laid his hands on you and prayed for that. It was very sweet.

David:        It was very sweet. He didn’t pray in the sense that everybody was hearing because there were several people praying for others as well, but it was a very intimate time for me and I’m grateful.

So, when God does talk to you, I guess the big thing is to say kind of like Samuel, I like that prayer and I’m going to put it into a sentence it won’t be like my normal sentences are. But Lord, when I sense you wanting to get my attention just know that my response is going to be speak for your servant is listening. I can think in my life when I’ve gone through times I don’t want to hear your voice.

Karen:        Yeah. “Enough for that.”

David:        I don’t want another challenge. Then I have times when I feel far from the Lord. It’s a very interesting life but the Lord is near. We’re all little children in some ways in our lives.

So, that’s a prayer I’m going to repeat it again that kind of encapsulates where I’m feeling we’re prompted to speak on behalf of certain people who are listening to us right now. Maybe it’s you and so here’s that prayer.

“Lord when I sense you wanting to get my attention just know that my response will be speak for your servant is listening.

I don’t want us to see this as a magic prayer. I don’t feel that way. In fact, we’re in a position right now where we’re kind of wrestling, not in a life-changing way but whether we’re hearing from God because if we are then we want to be obedient either it’s to go and minister to a given individual. It’s not as though this is uncommon in people’s lives. In fact, I think some people would say “Why don’t the Lord just talk out loud.” If you’re not totally 100% clear maybe I can plead ignorant.

Karen:        I’m wondering how many people who are listening to us have stories from people who’ve had this experience. I think most people who have been Christians of any amount of time have had those kind of encounters either the verses jumped off the pages and the Bible are you’re waking as I have been in the middle of the night and realize there’s something you haven’t attended to that the Lord has wanted you to attend to, or it’s in a Bible study group and someone who’s annoying says, “Why don’t you do something.”

“You know dear, I think that was really the Lord speaking to me.” So, what we’re saying is, be attentive. Listen, pay attention. Do what you hear he’s asking you to do.

David:        I’ve been recently wrestling with a problem. And I’ve said, “Okay Lord I’m trying to respond to you and act upon this but I’m getting closed doors all the time, but I still can’t let go of what’s…”

Karen:        Yeah, the divine push is still pushing, and it requires you to step out of your comfort zone as far as I understand what you’re wrestling with.

David:        Yeah, and I feel like large numbers of ministers around the country are preaching more information than there are challenges. This is what God is saying to us at this time.

Karen:        What if it may be theological information? I think theology is information rather than is an impelling message.

David:        Yeah, I think the preaching ministry for the most part in the local churches is verse by verse study of a passage and so on. But it never gets to “Okay, now here is where this relates to the world of you my listener and being very specific about that.” And I’ve talked to friends, and they tend to agree. But they don’t feel the same thing that says do something about it.

Karen:        Help to change this approach.

David:        I’ve thought well I’ll talk to so-and-so, and I’ve had good response from some in fact a couple of people that I would like to have further connection with and then I’ve felt like the Lord saying you should talk with so-and-so and I don’t feel like I’m on the level of those people. They’re academicians and I just feel like, you know, that’s intimidating for me to go and say, “I’ve found this burden. Is this anywhere where you are.” How can we work together to bring a lot of place where people do hear the voice of the Lord like when an evangelist speaks. You know he wants you to receive Jesus into his heart as his Lord and Savior. But on a regular basis in our churches our people being challenged that way. I don’t want to make myself a nuisance and some of the people I feel the Lord wants me to talk with and say, “How could we partner together to somehow help alleviate this problem or bring solution to this problem?” It’s befuddling to me. And yet I can’t let it go and I feel it the Lord saying “You can’t be that dumb David.”

Karen:        Well, I think part of this is because of your age and…

David:        I’m 88. One of our dear first new correspondents said “Don’t mention your age quite so much.” And I guess it is in my mind all the time because the sand is running out of that egg timer you know.

Karen:        But I think that part of the hesitancy you have is that we used to be on what 600 radio station and you had a position that gave you authority to say things that were in your heart to say. We had pastors’ conferences. You ran those all over the country, you’re training pastors how to be effective speakers and teachers. But you don’t have that platform anymore. So, it makes you feel as though you don’t have any authority to go to someone who’s positioned as the dean of a seminary, for instance, which I think is one of the people you’re supposed to approach and say, “What can be done about this problem? And “Is there anything I can do to help?” So, it’s hard at this time in your life to step forward.

David:        It’s intimidating to me. I can picture that this person’s secretary says, “Reverend David Mainz would like to have a time to talk to you.” “Who’s he?” you know.

Karen:        I think you just need to pay attention to the Lord’s voice and not…

David:        Yeah, you’re minimizing what I’m feeling. I’m feeling torn but I think that’s where people are. “Is this God speaking to me?”

That’s where people are. And for the most part, I think we’re more prone to say, “You’re going to have to be more clear Lord.” And the Lord doesn’t talk out loud like he did the Samuel as much.

Karen:        As we’re talking about this, I think I have a neighbor who moved into a house nearby. And there was a little confrontation. And every time I go past that house, I get a little nudge, “Why don’t you invite them over for coffee?” or something like that. And so, I think that’s as we’re talking about this now, that’s something I need to pay attention to and see if I can’t do something like that. “So, we’d like to get to know you better and come on in with you know I’m a special dessert or something like that.” But I think that nudge is going on in my life that direction right this moment now that we’re talking about.

David:        I would say take the nudge and put it into the prayer that I suggested before. “Lord when I sent you wanting to get my attention just know that my response will be ‘Speak for your servant is listening.’” Then we go on the journey and see where it all goes. I can’t recall any time maybe because I want to forget those times but when I thought the Lord said something to me and I found that maybe it was my own thought and it didn’t work out the way, or otherwise maybe it was a bigger assignment than I could just pull off quickly and I needed to realize in my mind the enormity of what God was asking me to do.

Karen:        So, what we’re saying to our listeners is this is a common position that we, as Christians or people just humans, find ourselves in. If it’s the Lord pushing you or the Holy Spirit nudging, pay attention. And then take your courage in and ask the Lord to cover you and do what he’s asking you to do or nudging you to do. And then see what happens. And if it doesn’t work out in a positive way at least you have been obedient in the process.

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