Karen:         David and I have been going over some of the life lessons we’ve learned over the years, six years of marriage.

David:         Karen and I dialogue like this. And one of the life lessons we brought up last visit was the discipline of reducing to a sentence what it is we’re attempting to say or what we believe scripture is saying.

Karen:         And sometimes it’s easy.

David:         And then I think, sometimes it’s not easy at all.

Intro:          Welcome to the Before We Go Podcast featuring Dr. David Mains and his wife, noted author Karen Mains. Here’s David and Karen Mains.

Karen:         So, last podcast we dialogued about a relatively easy text regarding one of my favorite subjects, hospitality, or more specifically, hospitality according to Jesus Christ.

David:         This time we have chosen a passage that’s a bit longer.

Karen:         Which might not be a bad idea to look up if you’re listening to us and you have a Bible handy.

David:         And if you don’t, the passage is Psalm 1 and Karen will read it to you all six verses in just a moment.

Karen:         But first, let’s do a quick review regarding what we said last visit.

David:         Okay. When asked to give a spiritual talk of some kind, begin your preparation by asking yourself three questions. What’s my subject? What’s the response I’m calling for? And what how to suggestions might be helpful.

Karen:         Now this is a communication methodology. And we find that when we listen to people speak or talk or preach, because they haven’t done this kind of pre-work, sometimes you don’t know what it is they’re trying to say. I neither do they really.

David:         They would not say that. They would say, I know exactly what I want to say until pressed to actually do that.

Karen:         Yeah, to explain it. And then they have a hard time telling you what it is. So, you have developed this communication methodology and you’ve taught pastors all over the country and we used to work with pastors when we had the radio and television ministering hundreds of pastors. In fact, I think there were 15,000 aggregate churches that we worked with through those years. But this is also a methodology that is extremely helpful for anyone who’s just asked to talk at a group or to speak here or to tell what you’re doing. Those sorts of things that come our way when we’re not really professional speakers, but they happen in life.

So, this tool will be extremely helpful for people when that comes. And then can I say one other thing, David? The methodology that we are going to explain now is a communication methodology, but it is an extraordinarily helpful Bible study methodology.

So, you have speaking anywhere, you can use this as you go to scripture and you’ll find that you’ll get much more out of the scripture. You retain it more and it’s more life changing when you do these exercises as well.

David:         Okay, Karen, I said to you that I did those pastors conferences many, many times and I would usually go out on a limb and say, “Who’s struggling with a passage this week and you’re trying to figure out what do I want to preach about in terms of this program?”

Karen:         I’m having a suspicion that there is a story that you’re wanting to tell us.

David:         I would say “Tell me what the passage is and I’ll see if we can help you.” And I was quite good at coming up with sentences. And then the pastors were good at saying, “I’m going to twist it a little because it’s more me saying it and that was very good.”

It was going well. And then one day our Michigan conferences were always very large compared to other parts of the country. I don’t know why, but we were strong in Michigan and I’m thinking of one, it was a Church of God, the church we were in, many different denominations as far as the pastors there, but we had probably a hundred and fifty pastors at least, maybe more than that.

So, I basically said, “Tell me if you’re struggling with a passage and we’ll see it very quickly, we can get it into a sentence, and I’ll show you how to do that.”

I may have been cocky, probably was. Anyway, one person said, “I’m preaching on it and he said Psalm 1.”

And so, I had Steve Bell who was doing the conference with me read that Psalm. And then I said, “Let’s see if we can get it into a sentence.”

And all of a sudden, Karen, my mind went blank. I could tell you everything in the world, but I couldn’t tell you what that Psalm was about. And I looked to Steve and he was like, “You got yourself into this mess, get yourself out of it.”

And oh, my goodness, it was humiliating and everybody, I think, kind of took a sigh of relief and said, “Well, we don’t have to pay a lot of attention to this guy anymore.”

Karen:         What did you do?

David:         I was humbled. You know, my mind just could not focus on that text.

Karen:         Okay.

David:         But when it was all over and I was alone, I went to the scriptures and a lot of people don’t know what happened. I ought to be able to do that. I read the text as it was easy as could be. But that moment was quite a humiliating time.

Let’s read the text and if I don’t have a recall and a terrible embarrassment time again, we should be able to handle it pretty easily.

Karen:         Okay. This is Psalm 1. Familiar Psalm.

“Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked; or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers. But his delight is in the law of the Lord and on his law, he meditates day and night. He is like a tree planted by streams of water which yields its fruit in season; and whose leaf does not wither whatever he does prospers.

Not so the wicked. They are like chaff which the wind blows away. Therefore, the wicked will not stand in the judgment. Nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous. For the Lord watches over the way of the righteous, but the way of the wicked will perish.”

What is one theme sentence we can take out of this passage? What is it trying to say?

David:         Well, it’s talking about the person. I’m just making it the person so it’s not just he. The person blessed by God gets his or her counsel from the right sources. This is not somebody who’s going to take life lessons from just whatever associates at work or neighbors or whatever. They’re not people who follow those.

Karen:         Screens or television screens in our computers.

David:         It could be Wall Street Journal. It could be New York Times. It could be whatever. And it could be immoral sources as far as that goes. But the person who is going to be blessed by God is going to get his or her counsel or how you should live life from the right sources. And in this case, it’s basically talking about the scriptures.

Karen:         Now we’re not saying that you should devalue yourselves of those sources. I mean, the Wall Street Journal is a conservative national newspaper and the New York Times is more liberal. And I actually read both of them from time to time to make sure that I’m seeing where both sides are coming from. Opposite poles are coming from.

And it’s perfectly fine to watch television as long as you moderate it. It’s easy not to moderate it, but that’s another discussion. But we’re basically saying that you understand to the depth of your being that the counsel on how you’re going to choose to live your life primarily comes from the Word of God. And from that time of praying and listening and what you receive guidance, as far as how to live, and what you receive guidance as to where you’ve made mistakes, where you’ve erred or sinned and you need to ask for forgiveness. That’s your primary source.

David:         Yeah. And that doesn’t have to be just the scriptures. Obviously, you’re going to hear sermons.

Karen:         Right.

David:         And you’ll learn that way even conversations with friends, religious periodicals, whatever. But the person who is going to be blessed by God, which is the Psalm topic, blessed is the person or blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly. You’re not getting your counsel from people who have a basically secular mindset.

Okay, the person blessed by God gets his or her counsel from the right sources. And then the question is how you do that and then you’re well on your way as far as unpacking that passage.

Okay, now I have a surprise for you.

Karen:         Oh, that’s great. It’s a good surprise, I hope.

David:         Well, I’m going to pretend that you were in charge of that seminar in Michigan.

Karen:         And the passage that they gave you, you were supposed to say, “Okay, let’s put this into a sentence so that we know precisely what it is we want to talk about.”

Karen:         Okay.

David:         And I chose the last time we talked about this, a very short passage. This time it’s kind of a medium passage. In next visit, we will talk about an extended passage. But the passage I’ve chosen is Luke 12:22-34, if you’ll look it up.

And Karen, it’s just about the same length as Psalm 1.

Karen:         Okay,

David:         Are you nervous?

Karen:         No, I don’t think so. I mean, we’re learning here. We’re in a learning curve here.

So, Luke 12:22, “Then Jesus said to his disciples, ‘Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or about your body, what you will wear. Life is more than food in the body, more than clothes. Consider the ravens. They do not sow or reap. They have no storeroom or barn yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds. Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life? Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest? Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you, not even Solomon and all his splendor was dressed like one of these.

If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow, is thrown into the fire, how much more will he clothe you. Oh you of little faith? And do not set your heart in what you will eat or drink. Do not worry about it. For the pagan world runs after all such things, and your father knows that you need them. But seek his kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well. Do not be afraid, little flock, for your father has been pleased to give you the kingdom.

Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out. A treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted. Where no thief comes near and no mouth destroys for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.”

I read these words quite a bit in my lifetime.

David:         Let’s pick out some of the big ideas that are there before we try to get it into a sentence, okay?

Karen:         Well, he’s saying that the better part of wisdom is not to focus on the security points that the rest of the culture considers security points. And to know that you have a Heavenly Father who loves you and will take care of you, but not only to know that, but to choose to live that way.

And I think in our materialistic culture, like America is, I mean, we will all say that. It’s hard to distinguish sometimes when you are violating this word of wisdom warning because we get caught up with the culture. And so, I think it’s good to come back to this scripture time and time again and ask ourselves, “How does this apply to my life now? How do I need to work this out in my life today?”

David:         Were there words that popped as you read the passage?

Karen:         Well, the one on clothes is interesting to me because I buy all my clothes from resell shops and I always have. In fact, my father did this before me. Dad was the head of the music department at Moody and he was a person of the depression. And so, he wasn’t cheap but frugal. Mother worked as well as my dad.

I remember coming home and my mother had taken me shopping. It was my early teens and she’d bought me a really pretty dress. And dad wanted to know how much we paid for it. What wasn’t a lot of money? But his response was that’s too much to pay for one dress. Now, if you bought two dresses for that same amount, that would have been okay. So that gives the background.

David:         Your dad was a great man.

Karen:         He was wonderful. But so, we were raised with this idea of frugality. So, I have always bought all of my clothes in resell shops. And I just wing in wing out. Look at the rack that I need some clothes in. But what it’s become, David, and I think it illustrates for me what the scripture has to teach us. It’s kind of like I go in and the Lord says, “You got to see what I got for you.” And it’s just I go through those rectors exactly a blouse I need. Or, you know, they cost $2 or $3.

And then I go to Goodwill on Wednesdays because they have special color days. If the tags are these colors, the garments that are cheap anyway are 50% off. But if you’re a senior, which I am, you get even more off.

David:         You need to take the clothes.

Karen:         Pretty much so. So that’s how I have lived this standard out in my life. And I feel like I look good all the time. And you know, I’m not embarrassed by the way I look.

David:         To me you do. Thank you.

Karen:         But it’s one of the ways I have worked out this edict in my life.

David:         Okay. So, frugality is not the essence of this passage, though. I would say one word you haven’t brought up very much or at all, maybe is worry. And worry comes up in this passage a lot. So, let’s try to put it into a sentence.

Karen:         Okay. Have you worked one out already?

David:         I have, but I’m putting you on the spot.

Karen:         Oh, goodness. Well, we’re talking about people who are choosing to be wise.

David:         Well, yeah. You started by saying we have a loving Heavenly Father.

Karen:         Right.

David:         So that’s a big part of the passage. And he cares for us. So, we are not to worry about the normal things that people worry about.

Karen:         And that’s very specifically taught by Christ, his apostles who are following around and the people who gather to hear him speak. But one of the elements in this passage that I think we overlook sometimes is that those people who are kingdom-minded, they know that there is a kingdom that exists in heaven. There’s a full kingdom that we’re promised over which Christ is the ruler. But we have kingdom moments here on earth. And those of us who are earthbound choose to live according to those kingdom principles and choose to live with the reality of the kingdom in our minds.

So, that changes then how we behave. Do we worry? No, we don’t worry if we’re living that way. We don’t worry. We’re not concerned about these things.

David:         Yeah, and we’re not putting into extreme. If somebody’s going through, like in, say, Ukraine right now. Those are extraordinary circumstances of war and so on. It doesn’t mean that…

Karen:         God doesn’t work there. He does work there.

David:         Yeah, He does work there. But this is the normal part of life. I’m going to give my sentence, okay? Then I’ll let you grade it.

Having a loving heavenly father should mean that a kingdom-minded person should not be consistently characterized by worry.

Want to say it again?

Karen:         Yeah, that’s a good sentence.

David:        Having a loving heavenly father should mean that a kingdom-minded person should not be consistently characterized by worry, okay?

Karen:        There are different ways to worry too. I’m applying this to my own life.

David:         Okay.

Karen:         I manage house and gardens when we have gardens and groceries and meals and laundry and, you know, all the things that go on in our temporal world. And then into that, I’m trying to be very diligent about my writing gifts.

I feel like I’m being pressed to write out into the non-religious culture. But I don’t have connections out there, you know, so it’s a big deal. So, I’m working with that as well. So, what happens to me in the worry department is I start to what I call ramp. And I start making lists in my head and I wake up in the middle of the night making lists, the things I need.

David:         The things you need to do?

Karen:         Things I need to do so that I can manage everything I need to manage and still fit in time for what is really my major calling. The house is not my major calling.

David:         So, I didn’t pick this passage because of thinking this was something you should deal with. But anyway, you’re saying it applies.

Karen:         I think everyone has to deal with this passage. So, this is how I particularly deal with it and I’m trying not to ramp. And this is the way I am doing it before the Lord. I’m saying the Lord is the Lord of each day and I’m going to let the day be the day. There’re some things I need to accomplish or would like to accomplish. But if he intervenes and if he changes the dynamics of the day,

David:         …he messes it all up.

Karen:         If he messes it all up,

David:         …it’ll be all my agenda.

Karen:         I will say that’s okay. And I’ll go his way, the way of the Lord of the day. And it’s just made a difference in the kind of anxiety. It really is a kind of anxiety. Am I going to get everything done? I need to do. I mean, you can even hear it in my voice as they speak about it. I can hear it.

So, I’m going to live and some things will get done that I had not even thought about and other things can wait for other times. So, that’s the way I’m trying to work with this concept of worry or being pressed or overwhelmed by the things that are in our lives, the things we do worry about, getting it done.

David:         Does this sentence that I suggested give you opportunity if you were giving a talk somewhere to die in your personal experience? Having a loving Heavenly Father should mean that a kingdom-minded person should not be consistently characterized by worry.

Karen:         Yeah, I do think it does. It does tie in with it. I think it would be extremely helpful for other people who are juggling so much in our culture. We have an addiction to speed in our culture, in our American culture, and we have so many opportunities that we have lost the solemnity and the serenity of letting the Lord be the Lord of the day and living in that way.

David:         We’re trying to come up with the essence of a given passage and then saying how would that be developed in terms of a presentation of some kind? We’ve also run out of time, so let me just say where I would like to move next time we visit, which will be on this same topic of putting into a sentence what it is the Bible is teaching, or what it is we want to share from our spiritual experience.

And we started with a very simple passage. Then we went to one that’s longer, a long paragraph, Psalm 1. This is the same kind of thing as worry. I don’t know how many paragraphs you read, but it’s quite a number of verses. It’s 10, 12 verses.

Now we’re going to go to Karen one last time and say we had chosen to do an entire book study in one presentation.

Karen:         Okay.

David:         What does Book of the Bible teach? I’m not giving away what Book of the Bible I’m dealing with. And some books are very difficult because they’re historic, you know, so on. But anyway, we’ll say let’s take a great big passage and see if getting it into a sentence is helpful in terms of being able to present what that is teaching. And then I think we’ll go to another life lesson because we’ll have maybe beaten this one to death.

I hope it’s helpful to people. It’s not only helpful, Karen, in my mind as to preparing a message to give that the Lord’s given opportunity. And it’s also helpful even if you’re talking or saying, how does this apply to me on a personal basis so that the Scriptures become not just something I read and then forget, but I’m absolutely interacting with in a most profound way.

Karen:         So, we will meet our listeners next week, same time, same place.

David:         Yep.

Outro:        You’ve been listening to the Before We Go Podcast. And if you would like to write to us, please send us an email at the following address, hosts@beforewego.show. That’s all-lower-case letters, hosts@beforewego.show.

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