David:     You didn’t create the problem. It wasn’t one of your own makings.

Karen:     Nevertheless, somehow, it’s up to you to solve it. And maybe we should say it’s up to you to solve it if you can.

David:     So far, however, a good solution has escaped you. So, what do you turn to for help?

Karen:     Well, maybe we should resay that. What to do when you don’t know what to do.

Intro:      Welcome to the Before We Go Podcast featuring Dr. David Mains and his wife, noted author Karen Mains. Here’s David and Karen Mains.

David:     Karen we’re in these odd days. The whole country is in this strange time. And I’m learning more and more that the complications of people are so diverse. You know, one person talks to you and they’re going through this struggle and then another person has a totally different struggle. But there are a lot of problems in terms of what’s happening.

Karen:     Yeah, I would say that there are a lot of people listening to us who are in a situation where they don’t know what to do when you don’t know what to do.

David:     Yeah, I’m very aware of that as I do the message that I can’t just say words. In fact, this is one of those topics where I have to be extremely careful of that.

Karen:     And I think the complications that people face only get exacerbated when they’re enclosed and isolated and living with one another. Maybe they have personality difficulties. They haven’t worked out with their immediate family and that just gets out of hand in times like this. So, it’s a hard time. Financial problems.

David:     A lot of people out of work.

Karen:     Really under duress, under stress, you know, can’t get to church, can’t gather with the folk that you generally connect with. And sometimes there’s comfort and wisdom and love that’s exchanged in those situations. So, it’s a hard time.

David:     It’s hard. Yeah, I can’t get to church. You went by that pretty quickly. For a lot of people, church is a huge benefit.

Karen:     Stabilizing.

David:     It kind of puts everything in alignment.

Karen:     Reminds you why we’re here and what we’re doing then. Yeah.

David:     To not have that or to have it in a different setting with a different set of distractions. 25 years ago, we went through what I would call the second most difficult time in our lives.

Karen:     We’ve talked about this before, but the greatest pain in our life probably wasn’t when our son died when he was 42 years of age of lymphoma. But the crisis you’re referring to is we really came under attack when we were in radio ministry by what I kindly am calling ultra-conservative folk who just took everything apart and didn’t really practice the scriptural advice that if you have something against your brother, you need to go to them personally and work it out and then take an elder along with you if you need it. But that didn’t happen.

David:     No. In the middle of that incredibly difficult time, which eventually killed our ministry, the radio ministry Chapel of the Air that we had, I was asked to speak at Wheaton College for a week. And now 25 years later, I’m looking back at what I shared, notes from that, which eventually became a book. I became aware that these were sermons that were incredibly appropriate even for now.

Karen:     Right. I guess they’re prophetic for any rough time that people go through where they really don’t know what they’re going to do or how to get out of it or how to handle it. I mean, they’re just, they are literally in a maze and that’s the name of the, actually the book that you’re reading from When Life Becomes a Maze is the name of the book.

David:     This is the seventh of eight of these messages on our Before We Go podcast. We’re doing two a week, which is aggressive for us. Usually, we just do one podcast a week. We thought these were appropriate. So, listen closely because I need to get you to comment to make sure this is not too ethereal or too beyond where people are. It’s very meaningful to me as I speak the words anyway. Okay.

The subtitle for the movie Apollo 13 could easily have been “What to Do When You Don’t Know What to Do.” You probably remember the poster. Tom Hanks, playing Jim Lovell, peers back at you over the shoulder of his astronaut garb. His eyes are wide, his face shows stress. Printed across the foot of the picture are the haunting words, “Houston, we have a problem.” Did they ever?

In fact, as the head of a three-man crew, Lovell faced a host of problems. The flight date had been moved forward, so they had less time than planned to go through the rigorous training necessary for a lunar mission. Not long before their launching, NASA’s flight surgeon determined that one crew member, Ken Mattingly, had been exposed to the measles and would almost certainly break out in them during the expedition.

So alternate Jack Swaggered replaced him in the last few days of training. Then on the way to the moon, during a routine stirring of the oxygen tanks, part of Lovell’s service module exploded. Suddenly, the Apollo 13 is venting oxygen. The crew has to shut down the command module and enter the adjoining lunar landing ship as a temporary safe haven.

In the part of outer space where they are, the temperature can fall as low as 280 degrees below zero. Even so, the lunar module is powered down to conserve what now is a very limited amount of energy, which leaves the crew in a cold predicament.

As time passes, the outlook gets pretty grim. The astronauts are bone tired and freezing. One of them, Fred Hasey, has a fever. As if that’s not enough, an alarm sounds a warning that the deadly carbon dioxide level has risen. It seems the moon landing module was only designed to filter the carbon dioxide exhaled by two men for 36 hours. These three men have been in it for over 24 hours and the filters are clogging. There are extra filters in the command module, but they’re square shaped and won’t fit the round holes of the lunar module system.

Back in Houston, the missions control people stay up all night frantically trying to solve this square pig in a round hole problem. Eventually, they come up with what I would call a robed Goldberg or incredibly convoluted way of making things work. Using tape, socks, food bags, cardboard, hoses, and whatever else they know is on the spaceship, they put together a system that can be duplicated by the crew of the Apollo 13 and wonder of wonders, the makeshift adapter gets the job done.

Unfortunately, it’s not long before another dilemma says Peter Sahl. When the astronauts re-enter the command module, which hopefully will bring them back to the earth, they aren’t sure it can be powered up again. It turns out that Ken Mattingly doesn’t have the measles and that’s fortunate because he knows this specific piece of equipment better than anyone else. As he climbs into the simulator at mission control in Houston, he says, “I need this to be cold and dark. Give me the exact same conditions the men up there are facing.”

After hours of work and several failed attempts, Mattingly comes up with a solution to maximizing the limited power available. In one of the most dramatic moments in the film, he gives his instructions to Swagger. Swagger’s the astronaut to replace him on the mission. Jack carefully writes down Ken’s instructions and now everything rides on whether the dead command module can be brought back to life.

It’s time to find out. But Swagger is exhausted. He has been on the spacecraft almost a week and hasn’t had much sleep. He’s nervous that things won’t go right and of course it is bitterly cold. If there’s even one loose seam that water has leaked into the entire electrical system can short out and be destroyed. As he goes about his risky and lonely task, he mutters to himself, it’s like driving a toaster through a car wash. “I’m having trouble reading my own writing.” He falters. “There’s an awful lot of condensation on the panels.”

Then this marvelous line comes from Ken Mattingly back in Houston. When I watched the film, it was like a leap from the screen. “Don’t worry about it”, he tells Jack. “I’ll talk you through it. Turn breaker five on.” And the calm voice from Houston leads this nervous replacement astronaut through the proper sequence and the command module starts.

Maybe seven messages into this series you still see yourself in a particularly tough situation. You’re given toaster in a car wash dilemma hasn’t had time to work itself out. So, you still don’t know whether your system will short out.

When you try to explain to others what’s happening to you and why you are particularly distressed their eyes start to glaze over. Obviously, they have trouble understanding. Their suggestions reveal that your friends haven’t a clue about what’s really going on in your life. They couldn’t be more out of it than if you were an Apollo 13 astronaut asking for help with your command module. So face it, your maze is unique and you shouldn’t expect someone to be around you who can talk you through it. Right?

Wrong. One of the great discoveries about being a Christian is that Jesus can identify completely with our unique troubles. He’s like a better trained backup who has purposely put himself in our predicaments and is therefore more than qualified to talk us through these problems.

Maybe to you that thought reads like more preacher words. Interesting sermon filler but it’s not much value in alleviating the pinch you feel in this tight spot. If that’s what you’re thinking, it’s time for you to grasp my next suggestion for what to do when you don’t know what to do. Make your maze time an occasion to discover how much Jesus identifies with your struggles. And let him be the one to talk you through what needs to be done.

Hear it again. Make your maze time an occasion to discover how much Jesus identifies with your struggles. And let him be the one to talk you through what needs to be done.

Example. What if you’re a single mom who doesn’t have enough time in a day to do everything that needs to be done? You lack money to hire help and people of the church are slow in lending a hand the way you would like. “Jesus, can you identify with what I’m going through?” You ask prayerfully. “I know you understand singleness, but did you ever have to get done in a day way more than what should be expected of any one person”?

Well, the answer of course is yes. Check out Christ’s schedule in passages like Matthew 8 and 9. Few people squeezed as much into a day as our Lord Jesus did. Also note that after this extended time of preaching and healing he told his disciples, “…the harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few.” Apparently, he felt it would be nice to have more help.

Or say you’re an executive in a highly competitive field and one or two bad decisions that put your entire corporation in jeopardy. Key employees are beginning to look for other challenges and sometimes you almost wish you had that same option.

I can identify with you. Maybe that’s why I liked Apollo 13 so much. It looked like there was no possible way there could be a successful conclusion to this troubled mission yet somehow, they pulled it off and I left the theater with hope. “Come on David, had you responded? Everybody thinks of you as a minister or a preacher, not a business executive.”

Well, Jesus certainly knows what it’s like filling the preacher role but these days I’m reminding him that I’m also the executive director of a 56-year-old not-for-profit media corporation that employs about 50 people who may very well feel their jobs are at risk. Each year one of our major assignments from the Lord is to organize a 50-day spiritual adventure. The goal is to have one million North American participants in this time of accelerated spiritual growth. Another million are expected to be involved throughout Asia especially in India and Nepal. To launch an adventure requires a substantial amount of upfront money. For example, just the initial print run of the English journals cost over a hundred thousand dollars. We also have to pay for 140 from October through January pastor and church leader conferences which train those who will lead the adventure in an estimated 8,000 participating churches. So, there are airplane tickets to buy, leader manuals to print, videos to produce, test programs to run, and supplementary books to stack.

Most of the money that churches pay for these materials will not get to us until just before the adventure begins. Another large number of church invoices will be paid following the actual 50 days of the adventure. So how do I satisfy printers, travel agents, the federal express people, and a host of other suppliers by the 30-day grace period they extend when they initially send me their bills. Already my organization is strapped financially. Can Jesus identify with that kind of pressure?

I can almost hear the Lord say, “Yes David I can. I had a dream of the kingdom that would be worldwide. Most of the people who first heard what I said didn’t have the faintest idea how large that world is and what resources it would take to pull off what I had in mind. As I spoke, I had to keep on the move because Roman soldiers and jealous religious leaders were among those listening in the crowds. So, I know what juggling all is about. Wondering whether key people will stick with me when the going gets tough. Believe me I can identify with all that.”

Well, it’s amazing to me how well Christ can identify with most of our mazes in spite of the fact that his life here was quite short. He knows what it’s like to grow up in a setting where people question his dreams rather than believing in them. He understands how it feels not to be attractive, to be despised and rejected and even to be looked upon as a “sinner.”

Long before our Lord made his appearance on earth the prophet Isaiah wrote these words about Christ. “He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him. Nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men. A man of sorrows and familiar with suffering.”

So many brothers and sisters in third-world countries have told me about the physical violence they’ve suffered because of their witness for Christ. When a conversation like this takes place, I find myself being very quiet. I know nothing about such experiences. I never had a tomato or egg thrown at me much less stones. Never once has anyone ever heckled me when I preached. But these men and women know what it means to stand in the face of adversity and talk of their love for Jesus and what he can do for a life. They are the ones who have represented their Lord’s alternative kingship in areas where people have never before even heard the name of Jesus. Often their boldness puts into motion the clash of the kingdoms of light and darkness.

Though I have trouble understanding their experiences I’m so grateful that Christ is familiar with suffering. He can say to these people “I know what it’s like to be spit at, to have my beard yanked from my face, to have my backlash raw, to be nailed to a cross, to be hung naked before an angry crowd and to hear them heckle me. Believe me I’ve been there, and I can talk you through this amazing maze.”  

The writer to the Hebrews states in Chapter 2:18 “…because he himself suffered when he was tempted. He is able to help those who are being tempted.” Two chapters later Hebrews 4:15,16 reads, “For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way just as we are; yet was without sin. Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.”

Finding grace to help us in our time of need sounds to me like making our time in a maze and occasion for discovering how much Jesus identifies with our struggles; and then letting him talk us through what needs to be done. Jesus identifying with what we’re going through doesn’t necessarily mean that any of us can understand what he experienced. Like the old African American spiritual says “Jesus walked this lonesome valley. He had to walk it all alone. Nobody else could walk it for him.”

In Philippians, Paul writes about the Godman in Chapter 2, “And being found in appearance as a man he humbled himself and became obedient to death even death on a cross. Therefore, God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”

Realizing his uniqueness, I’m quick to say, “Lord, who do I know like you? Yes, you can identify with what I’m going through because you lived on this earth as I do, but you’re also the marvelous Son of God who honors me greatly by offering you help. I’m listening. Please talk me through what needs to be done.”

Sometimes I pray those words before going to the scriptures. And certain verses will stand out as I read them. On other occasions I’ll be in a prayerful frame of mind while driving, and all alone the Lord will remind me of wonderful promises he made when here on earth.

In my current situation he has repeatedly taken me back to the Sermon on the Mount. And talked about the lilies of the field not laboring or spinning while King Solomon and all his wonder was not dressed as well as they were. So, why should I worry about things like clothes, food, shelter, or future 50-day adventure concerns? My Lord’s specific words are, “Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, David, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.”

Maybe the Lord wants to say to you, “Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. So don’t be afraid. You are worth more than many sparrows.” Or you have heard that it was said, “Love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.” It could be a word about not storing up for yourself “treasures on earth, where they’ll likely be destroyed or stolen” someday. Or Jesus may be telling you to make sure your treasure is in heaven, where it will be safe and indestructible. “For where your treasure is there will your heart be also.”

It’s not Houston, but heaven that reminds you. “I am the true vine, and my father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit, he prunes” or trims clean “so that it will be even more fruitful.”

My personal conviction is that Christ always has special words he wants to impress on your mind during stress-filled times. Most often they will be gentle and kind, words from someone who is fully aware of the pressures you’re going through. He understands the multiplicity of those space shuttle type problems that come one after another, but he promises to talk you through them. You will not be destroyed. This confusing maze will be mastered if you follow his instructions.

I find journaling to be an integral part of this process. It’s important that you put on paper what Jesus has impressed on your heart and how your thoughts give direction and meaning to your life. Notes taken during the journey are what can later transform a maze experience into a good story.

You see all good scripts are built on conflict. Without conflicts there is really not much of a story to tell. A conflict that takes the turn for the worst is called a tragedy. What you want is an Apollo 13 type of ending. Granted, no one on that mission got to walk on the moon, but it was still a victory of sorts. There remained valid reasons for rejoicing. And it certainly was a phenomenal story to tell.

I have a hunch that one of the great pastimes in eternity will be watching people’s stories that were never appreciated on earth the way they should have been. Some of you listening to my words may be heroes in accounts that will be favorites in the world yet to come. I guess it is that certain of you who often feel bone tired and alone yet keep on following what Jesus tells you will be the ones most applauded in the future life.

Jim Lovell is an unusual person. His saga was retold while he was still alive. He has become a hero because a film was made about what took place on his mission. But in eternity there will be more than enough time to see to it that all good stories are appreciated. And I have a feeling that in each of them there will be a particularly moving scene where the one who now often plays a backup role and allows us to appear as the stars, “Says don’t worry about it Jack (or Karen or David or Margaret or Thomas or Luciana or whomever) I got this thing figured out. If you listen to me everything will turn out fine. Now let me talk you through it.”

Karen:     That’s great honey.

David:     To ethereal?

Karen:     Oh no I think it’s extraordinarily helpful. I think particularly helpful because of where people are today with this COVID-19 isolation and pandemic that we’re going through. So, you know it’s just a matter of learning how to do hereon.

David:     Can you identify it all recently where God has kind of spoken to your heart in an unusual way?

Karen:     Yeah, because of the isolation I’ve been really going through my unfinished projects here at the house. And there are two books that I’ve started and sort of attempted to move along, and I’ve just been able to really concentrate on them. But you get to a point where you say, “Lord where did I want this to go?”

One is a book about an overseas faith-based development organization that in some categories come under the mission category. But it’s really a development organization that has created an exceptional tool for empowering local communities to identify, solve their own problems and use their own assets to solve those problems.

David:     Do you have a title for the book yet?

Karen:     Uncommon Goodness.

David:     Uncommon Goodness.

Karen:     So, as I was sitting down and making notes on this I thought “Where do I need to go on it and what was I thinking a year and a half ago when I started this project”? And I had a notebook that was half filled. One of those eight and a half by eleven notebooks. And I realized the back two thirds of it were empty and I could start making notes on this book project, “Uncommon Goodness” in it.

David:     So, you’re talking how long ago now?

Karen:     This was like yesterday.

David:     So, you were really sitting, okay?

Karen:     So, my prayer was, “Lord you know let me hear what your ideas are on this book and what things need to be said.” And for some reason because I was stalling maybe I started to look at the first third of the book because the last two thirds of the page of the notebook the pages were empty. Lo and behold, a year and a half ago or two years ago in that very notebook which I just picked off of a shelf, I had made intensive notes during training sessions at this organization. During conversations with the field workers, with the International Council, but they’re from all over the world, and in the particular remarkable genius methodology they used to do this empowering of people in local communities. And their whole emphasis is on changing communities with the message of the Lord Jesus Christ, but through this educational process, this unique educational process. So, it was like the Lord just…

David:     Wow.

Karen:     It’s one of those times when you say, “I can’t believe this is happening.”

David:     You didn’t even remember at all that it was there.

Karen:     I didn’t have a clue that it was in that notebook. It was just two-thirds of the extra pages that were unfilled, but that was the very notebook I needed to pick up.

David:     It was like the Lord said, “Okay, let me walk you through this thing.”

Karen:     And then at 77, you know, I’m working with frequent memory lapses, and part of that I think is because I have so much I’m working on. I’m not singly focused the way it should be probably. But just I can testify to the reality of this fact that when we don’t know what to do; when we’re in a place where we don’t know what to do, that that prayer, “Lord, help me or give me, I’m listening.”

And the other thing I realized is I used to set aside 15 minutes every day just to be quiet and listen. It was part of my devotional practice. I mean, I had nothing in mind. So, I would just sit and listen because I was trying to develop the ears and what I call the ears of my soul. And that practice has sort of dropped off too. So, I’m beginning to say, “Okay, I’m here 15 minutes, whether I hear from you or not, this is the time I’m given to you to speak to my heart if you need to do that for me.”

David:     It’s wonderful. Again, I had this strong feeling. I didn’t want that message to be preacher reality. I wanted it to be reality and it is reality. But how do you get it down to that little one?

Karen:     Well, how do you help people activate it?

David:     So, your illustration is wonderful.

Karen:     Right. Thank you. Well, it was obviously timely for this podcast too. That’s another point now. Isn’t that amazing?

David:     Yeah, it really is.

Karen:     Just like yesterday, it happened.

David:     I have done a little extra work beyond what we’re saying. And I have written out five different scriptures with five questions each to try to help people process further. I don’t have to explain a lot because on all of our Before We Go podcast in this series, I’ve said I’ve done that. You’re more than welcome to get those. I think the scriptures help you if you say, “I don’t know where to go.” I’m going to sit down with scripture and begin to try to be open to the speaking of the Lord. So again, those are just an added bonus.

Karen:     These are helps.

David:     Yeah.

Karen:     So how do people get that?

David:     Well, I’m not as good at doing that. So, Dean is going to refer to you. Okay.

Outgo:     You may obtain a copy of the handout mentioned in this podcast by pointing your web browser to the following link: grow.beforewego.show. That’s all-lowercase letters.  And if you would like to write to us, please send us an email at the following address hosts@beforewego.show .

You’ve been listening to the Before We Go Podcast. If you’ve enjoyed this podcast please remember to rate, review and share on whatever platform you listen. This podcast is copyright 2020 by Mainstay Ministries, Post Office Box 30, Wheaton, Illinois 60187.