David:     Karen, we have made it through two weeks of living in the house.

Karen:     This marriage is pretty well formed by 59 years.

David:     We get along pretty well.

Karen:     We get along well.

David:     I wonder where other people are. We’ll talk about it.

Intro:      Welcome to the Before We Go Podcast featuring Dr. David Mains and his wife noted author, Karen Mains. Here’s David and Karen Mains.

David:     Let’s get an update as to how we’re doing, Karen. What are your thoughts?

Karen:     Well, you know, it’s an interesting time. You don’t generally experience any time in your life where you’re isolated like this, voluntarily isolated. I mean, we really are not going to the stores or running little errands or learning another way to live. We’re very dependent upon email and phone conversations with our kids and we’re starting to zoom, use the zoom app so we can have group meetings, family meetings. We’re doing that on Sundays. So, it’s forcing now whole new kind of apparatus on our living. There are interesting things that come out of this. I think one of the interesting things is that we realize how precious our relationships are when we can’t activate those relationships. So that’s one thing. There’s this sense of appreciation. I just read an article on gratitude in the midst of the coronavirus pandemic and there are a lot of people expressing gratitude to the frontline health workers, for instance, or to a neighbor who did something for them. And so that underlying positive expression of thank you for what you’ve done or thank you for who you are seems to be rising more and more in a lot of places. Things we take for granted. We’re not taking for granted so much.

David:     I think we’re more sensitive to one another. We have, I’m trying to think off the top of my head, five healthcare workers. We have…

Karen:     …in our extended family.

David:     …one, just our family, one doctor, one young man who’s going to be a doctor in just a matter of weeks. We have two nurses.

Karen:     One’s an emergency room nurse.

David:     Yes, and one nurse practitioner to be in just a very short period of time. So, there are five in the healthcare field. We’re concerned about them. We have one grandchild who is out of the country.

Karen:     Our granddaughter, Josie, she’s studying at the American University in Paris and totally isolated by herself in her room of her own. No, you know, she’s not going out.

David:     France is in a lockdown. You cannot go out.

Karen:     Right. I mean, they’re really policing it over there too.

David:     So, in a lot of ways, I’ve always prayed for my family very faithfully, but it gives a whole new sense of what’s a good word. Urgency.

Karen:     Urgency, I think is. I spent a lot of time awake last night praying for our family, particularly for Josie, who’s so alone over there. And I felt like the Lord really spoke to my heart about some things I could do that would help. So, I’ve activated those before we started to do this podcasting.

David:     You talked last time about taking a book and a letter to our neighbors and putting it by their mailbox. So that’s been done. You haven’t heard anything yet?

Karen:     No, I don’t expect to. I think that’s something that happens after this break and someone comes past and says, “Oh, I loved your book or thanks for dropping it past” that sort of thing. I’m not expecting any response.

David:     I had a call from one of the shop owners in our neighborhood.

Karen:     Right!

David:     A very fine man.

Karen:     Someone you’ve spent a lot of time cultivating a relationship with.

David:     Yeah, he’s been as good at cultivating the relationship with me. But he expressed anxiety. His business has tanked in a lot of ways. And just trying to figure out how he’s going to get through all this. I prayed for him over the phone. I don’t know how helpful that was. But, and I don’t mean to put that down, but he’s not accustomed to me praying with him. So, we’re in the middle of all this with everyone else. I think that we feel fortunate because of our faith. It’s interesting. I’ve really struggled, Karen, as to what we should say on this podcast. And do I have anything relevant? Wrestling with that, with the Lord, I came up with what I think will be a possible series, depending on what happens in our country. Twenty five years ago, I was in the midst of a terrible personal storm because our whole ministry was closing down. We had been accused of being new age by some of the people who supposedly are the watchdogs of the faith.

Karen:     They were self-appointed heretic hunters.

David:     Yeah, and I was asked to speak for the week-long series of meetings at my college alma mater Wheaton. I had preached those sermons to a day to the school out of my own pain, what I was going through. I never recorded those on the broadcast, so I can’t go back and say I’m going to play those because I believe they’re appropriate for it today.

Karen:     I said we call that series was titled “What to Do When You Don’t Know What to Do?” How Appropriate.

David:     That’s what it eventually became.

Karen:     Yeah, for this time in our lives.

David:     I eventually put those sermons into a book called “When Life Becomes a Maze.” But I went back and I read through that book and I thought those are really appropriate messages, maybe not all of them, but some of them anyway. And I thought “Well, I will do those on the podcast.” I wish I could go back and say, “okay these are from the archives.” There are no archives with these.

Karen:     Such as having recorded them on the chapel of the air so we could broadcast those.

David:     At the time I thought this is not where people are. I remember distinctly having that feeling. I’m going through this, but I’m not sure the students are, the faculty or any of the administration people. And I think I brought the wrong thing to the situation. But I went over them again now and I thought these are dead on. They’re exactly what people need to hear. Maybe that’s what I was preparing them for and so I thought I would go over those messages from my manuscript.

Karen:     Okay.

David:     If you don’t mind, I’ll do the first one. Then at the end of this we’ll talk about it for a little while. Ok?

Last autumn, I took my two-year-old granddaughter to a reconstructed farm in the nearby Chicago suburbs. A simple maze had been put together for children out of Bales of Hay. Little Caitlyn loved running through the corridors and jumping off the walls. In Lancaster County, Pennsylvania I’ve been told large mazes are cut into the midst of some of the cornfields. Many times, landscapers planted a labyrinth of boxwood of U-hedges in the middle of formal English gardens. Mazes come in different forms. Some are more challenging than others; some less so. To get into the world of more difficult mazes, puzzle solvers tackle computer games. For most of us, however, just living life for a while is enough to experience our share of complexities. Sooner or later, we reach a point where there seems to be no exit or entrance, no escape, from some terrible pain-filled dead end. I’ve been trying to recall where I was emotionally about a year ago. That’s when I found myself in a seemingly impossible maze that I’m still trying to master.

It started with a series of negative articles by, “Watch Dogs of the Faith”, who questioned the authenticity of my ministry. The accusations first focus on my wife Karen’s writings. She had 20 or more books published with evangelical publishing houses, and some have been national prize winners. Because of her high reputation, the criticism that she was a proponent of new age thinking seemed unbelievable.

But indeed, that’s what a couple of critics were suggesting. Then suddenly our office phones were ringing and ringing with inquiries from concerned pastors, Christian radio station managers, and longtime supporters. Next, our accusers question not only Karen, but also me. By quoting out of context, by imposing meanings I never intended, they raised issue with broadcast topics or articles I had written as many as 10 years before. We suddenly felt like we were before a modern, inquisition tribunal. Not knowing all that much about new age thinking, I was incredulous and predicted that the storm would soon blow over. I couldn’t have been more wrong. In another month I was literally terrified over what was occurring. Stations on which the Chapel of the Air had broadcast for decades were dropping the program. The original negative articles were being quoted by others who stretched the ludicrous statements even more. Donations fell off drastically. Ministering peers were requesting answers to their long letters of inquiry that would have required a full-time research team to adequately satisfy. I was like the proverbial frightened mouse that not only didn’t know how to get out of this maze, but also kept bumping into the electric shock mechanism, no matter which way it fled.

Eventually our radio debt was so large that we were forced to close the doors of the broadcast, despite its past history of some 55 years of ministry. What do you do when you don’t know what to do? To be honest, I’m not capable of answering that for you from the perspective of someone who has already worked his way through his entanglements. I’m getting closer hopefully to the end of this puzzle and I’m really anxious to break out into open ground even though I may find myself in totally new territory, but I’m not at the end yet. So, what I’m sharing are the spiritual lessons I learned while still in the maze.

I can tell you what’s working for me and what’s not. I apologize if my thoughts aren’t as finished as I would like. In truth, I’ve never addressed these specific matters before. Still my words are relevant to where I am and that I can guarantee.

Not everyone here will identify with the immediate need of mastering a given maze, but almost all of us know a family member or a well-loved friend who’s having to endure a seemingly hopeless situation and sooner or later everyone faces one of life’s mazes. As a student, for example, you may be facing a financial labyrinth. A scholarship didn’t come through. Parents weren’t able to help as much as they would like and now paying bills is a more immediate priority than getting good grades. At best this semester will end with deep debt. Maybe you’re even training for a ministry position or a helping profession that doesn’t promise too much in future financial returns.

Thinking about graduate school is not realistic, but in order to achieve long-range professional plans, not going to graduate school isn’t realistic either. Changing majors is a possibility, but that’s already happened twice. Perhaps seeing a doctor about the burning in your stomach is important, but maybe it’s just as well you don’t know what’s causing the pain. Can’t just be stress, can it?

On top of that, the student world is filled with romantic dead ends. Someone loves someone who is in love with someone else. On top of even all this, how in the world is one discerned the mind of the Lord, a maze of another incredibly perplexing kind?

Well, student culture today is a microcosm of perplexities. Seniors graduate and often haven’t the faintest idea what they should do, except maybe move back home with mom and dad and look for a job in the hometown, the hometown they vowed they would never live in again. Are these just words? Every subculture has an inherent set of imponderables. The doctor has health care mazes and malpractice insurance predicaments. Lawyers have one of the highest rates of depression. Housewives must cope with troublesome marriages, troubled adolescence, and the rise of the troubling feminist agenda. Mazes are sooner or later a part of everyday life.

These impossible to solve puzzles can be found in all countries of the world. Maybe as a young man in India, your conversion came about because of the efforts of Western missionaries. But your early dependence on them was brought to a screeching halt when your country closed its doors to foreigners with beliefs incompatible with Hinduism. Suddenly it seemed all the spiritual help you needed was gone and you felt abandoned by the very God who made himself known to you in such a personal way. Job of evangelism within your own country was immense but you were young and inexperienced and had only limited resources. What were you supposed to do when you didn’t know what to do?

In stories, a maze can trap anyone unexpectedly. Remember the innocent passengers in the movie Speed? They’re on this bus that has exceeded 50 miles per hour and now if the speed dropped below that mark, a hidden bombing mechanism will explode. And suddenly they’re hostages to some lunatic saboteur’s reckless revenge. Real life can be a lot like those crazy stories. As the head of an organization, I have to make sure that the chapel doesn’t explode, that nobody gets hurt, that the bomb is somehow diffused. How did I ever get into this situation?

One of the things I’ve learned these past horrific years that lots of people are riding such buses and little devotional talks from ministers or well-meaning Christians won’t cut it for them. Platitudes are useless to those lost in a real-life labyrinth. I’m grateful to the Lord for the opportunity to understand on a deep level what many are experiencing. For most, unlike the ending of Speed, there’s not even the promise of a romance with the adorable Sandra Bullock or the handsome Keanu Reeves.

For you who are lost in a pain-filled predicament, let me welcome you to the “In the Maze Club.” Would you believe membership goes all the way back to Bible times?

The Book of Genesis, tells about Joseph, a young man who looked like he had it made. His father’s favorite son, Joseph, had also received unusual God-given prophetic promises through his dreams. Then, while off looking for his jealous brothers, Joseph was quickly and unexpectedly transported as a captive to his special land of confusion, Egypt. But losing his way didn’t mean he lost his contact with God. It was his strong belief that God was with him that he eventually brought Joseph to his place of prominence in Egypt.

Words spoken much later to his humble and repentant brothers has become a hallmark for all who suffer from the evil action of others. “So, then it was not you who sent me here but God. You intended to harm me, but God intended for good to accomplish what is now being done the saving of many lives.”

This same conviction was expressed by David again as a young man. If Samuel spoke for God and anointed David as king, why was David having to play the Harrison Ford role of the fugitive? Confused by what was happening in Psalm 27, David nevertheless wrote in verses 2 and 3, then 13, “When evil men advance against me to devour my flesh; when my enemies and my foes attack me, they will stumble and fall. Though an army besieges me, my heart will not fear. Though war break out against me, even then will I be confident. Confident of this, I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.” In other words, with God’s help I’ll make it through this maze.

Those of us not yet free of the confusion can’t help but admire such spiritual pluck. I am still confident of this. I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Now that’s faith. In essence, these spiritual forebearers remind us of a key truth that those of us in the middle of our puzzles need to put to use. When life is confusing, choose to believe the Lord will make a way for you through the maze. That’s my key sentence.

So, I’ll say it again. When life is confusing, choose to believe the Lord will make a way for you through the maze. The opposite would be to assume that God really is not all that interested in our situation. Whether he doesn’t have time to get involved in our petty needs. Or that he wants us to work things through totally on our own. Whether these passages of Scripture really aren’t all that applicable to dilemmas like being maxed out on both our Visa and Mastercard with no way of stopping additional bills from coming. Or that, and this is Isaiah 40:27b, ..”.my way is hidden from the Lord. My cause is disregarded by my God. But wait”, writes the prophet in verses 30 and 31. In fact, let me contemporize a little. “Even youths grow tired and weary running down passageways that apparently appear promising, but in reality, are dead ends. And young men and women struggle and fall and bump into walls and hedges and corn stalks and hay bells. But those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles. They will run and not grow weary. They will walk and not be faint.”

In the New Testament the same basic truth is proclaimed in Romans 8. When life is confusing, choose to believe that Christ will make a way for you through the maze. Scripture. “And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him, who have been called according to His purpose. If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own son, how will he not also along with Him graciously give us all things? For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present or the future, nor anything else in all creation”, including bills or broken relationships or unfulfilled promises, misunderstandings, a need for counseling, or a spiritual burden for a land like India that is far bigger than what most people pray about, or mazes of any kind, and I know I am adding words but the text reads, “nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

I was just listing a few of the anything else that can’t separate us from God. It is when life is most confusing that we have the opportunity to test these truths. Do we believe them or not? In fact, our words give away where our convictions lie. We need to take note of our words. We need to listen closely to what we are saying. Our remarks give us clues about what we really believe.

In the maze, do we tell others, I’ll never get through this. I know I won’t. Do we fret? I don’t think I’m going to make it. There is no way out of this dilemma. Or do we speak what Scripture teaches? I believe God is working in a marvelous way in my behalf. What He’s doing just hasn’t been revealed yet, but it’s going to be like Joseph’s story all over again. I am trusting the Lord for that.

So, how are you doing, David Mains? I want to ask, are you practicing what you preach? Well, I’m going through a hard time, I respond, but I’m growing spiritually, and you know what? In this great test of my faith, I’m choosing to believe that God is working to pull off something wonderful.

Hebrews 11 is the listing of the Old Testament heroes of the faith, both men and women. Here’s verse 6, ..”.and without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.”

Hey, am I making it all too simple in light of the terrible problems you may be facing? If so, then allow me to talk to myself again. David, your radio ministry with a history of 55 years had to shut down. That was painful, especially since the program was begun by your uncle. It was like you were the person who sold the family farm. However, the New Daily Television Ministry is doing well. With only a year and a half on air, you need to know, has already received the Television Program of the Year Award from the National Religious Broadcasters. Is that the direction God is pointing out to you?

It was scary, scary to quit radio. Didn’t want to make a wrong decision. Will you believe that God is going before you, walking you through the various stages of this maze? Will you thank Him for His guidance? Or will you grouse, complain, jokingly malign the Lord as though He wasn’t caring for you the way He should? Well, I, David Mains, am determined to be an “I believe” person. I’m going to keep repeating the words of faith. I’m confident that I’ll see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. That’s what I’m going to do.

So, I’m encouraging all who hear these words to be, I believe people right along with me. Too many times in Christian circles we say this is never going to work out. Things are a mess. There’s no solution. Absolutely none. I’m telling myself and you, those are death words. They imply that God isn’t working all things together for good for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose.

I like what I would call an “I believe” sequence in the recent adaptation of the movie Miracle on 34th Street. Maybe you saw it over the Christmas season. If you don’t mind, students, I’ll use a number of film illustrations with the coming of television. I find church people identify more quickly with these kinds of stories than with illustrations from books.

Anyway, this particular movie questions whether this old fellow, played by Richard Attenborough, could really be Santa Claus. The judge knows he’s not, but he has a dilemma. If his courtroom he rules the old man isn’t Saint Nick, he risks destroying the belief in Santa that all the kids in New York City hold. That’s a tough position to be in, especially when the story of the trial is in all the newspapers.

Then the city rally. It’s exciting. All across the metropolitan area, adults begin putting up signs saying, “I believe.” It’s written in the graffiti. It’s on the sides of the buses. Even store windows display, “I believe”, cards. The hard hat workers repeat the words and so do this symphony orchestra members. Everybody saying the same thing, “I believe.” And that’s the growing momentum of believe carries the day.

But I fear in difficult times we lose this “I believe” momentum when it comes to the truth of the universe. Maybe people of the church don’t believe any more like they used to. As soon as we hit a big bump, we suddenly stop believing. Are we still saying the “I believe” statements in the church board meetings, in the choir rehearsals, the Sunday School Lessons, the missions’ fundraisers, the hospital visitations, and the finance department emergencies. I fear we’re, I am, too often like the disciples in the final days of Christ’s earthly life. Those were confusing and troubling times for his 12. In John 14, Thomas says in essence, we’re lost. We don’t even know where you’re going, Lord. So how can we know the way? That’s maze talk.

Jesus responds, “I am the way.” And on top of that, “I’m going to ask the Father to give you another besides myself to console you and to be with you forever. He’ll teach you all things.” Certainly, that includes negotiating life’s mazes.

So, the first principle I must learn in order to successfully negotiate life’s mazes is this: It’s important to determine to be an “I believe” person. Learn to tell yourself, I have no doubt that Christ will make a way for me through this present confusion. Therefore, my ears will consistently hear my mouth affirming that truth until unbelief statements are all but eliminated. I’m not sure how. I have every confidence that my Lord is at work pulling off something good, creative, surprising for me. And I don’t want to mess that up by allowing my own disbelief to rob me of that good and surprising future. I am determined to be known by God as an “I believe” person.

Are we out of the maze yet? Probably not. Are you? Am I? No, but that doesn’t mean I can’t be an “I believe” person. Am I frustrated? Reworking some of these paths of this maze over and over again? Not really. It’s just a matter of time for learning to walk them by faith, believing that God is with me. The master of all mazes will free me. And before long the open fields and an unblocked horizon will greet me. Making “I believe” statements, choosing to believe in God’s great provisions builds my confidence in his amazing, maze-solving skills. That’s my first step in negotiating life’s labyrinths.

Karen, I guess I apologize for those old movie references.

Karen:     What I was thinking, it’s amazing you said that that was done 25 years ago.

David:     Yes.

Karen:     Apart from the movie references, which I think a lot of people have seen anyway, or if you can get them on Netflix perhaps, because they’re wonderful films. But, you know, to me that was a prophetic word that the Lord gave you at that time, as you were going through this with our own ministry. Those were rough days.

David:     In our own relationships, we remember them very well, Lord.

Karen:     We remember them really well. Yeah, it was rough. But the fact that we went through that 25 years ago and you wrote that then without the normal channels that we usually would have had, i.e., the radio broadcast, whatever we would have used at that time, indicates to me that this God in whom we put our belief system was working in you prophetically. So that, those words would be available to people today as we’re going through this pandemic maze.

David:     Together, a very real maze, very painful maze.

Karen:     Economic collapse and people are being isolated in their homes from one another. We’re not sure at the time of this podcast how long that’s going to last. These are extremely prophetic words to our time. And that’s one of the things that verifies to me the truth of Scripture is that it is applicable to all generations at all times, no matter what they’re going through. And it has been that way through these 2000 and some years since those words were written in Scripture. It’s very, very powerful.

David:     I put together for people who want to believe God, want to go to Scripture and see those promises and don’t know where to start. I’ve written out five Scriptures. One from Job, from the life of Joseph, some from New Testament, Paul’s writings, the Psalm 27. And I said, read these passages and then I put five questions under each of those so that I can make them available. They’re not fancy.

Karen:     They’re just a guide. They’re a guide to help people get started.

David:     It’s a plain sheet of paper. It’s all it is.

Karen:     Because they’re not fancy doesn’t mean they’re not powerful.

David:     I think that’s well said. I kind of apologize, but we’re old up in the house. Our office is in the house. I had to call one of the persons who works for us, and I said, “I’m putting this out on the front porch. Could you come by, pick it up and then email it to me”, which he has done. He’s done his usual good job. He added a little on it as he typed them up. But I have those and they’re available. By the time this podcast goes up, I think Dean will be ready and he can tell people how they can obtain these Scriptures. So anyway, that’s just something that we can do that could be helpful to people beyond hearing words and then saying, “what was read with these Scriptures will remind you of what was said.” And then we’ll look toward next week and see where we are. Are you choosing to be an I believe person?

Karen:     I certainly am.

David:     Even about the people who are a part of the healthcare system.

Karen:     I am believing.

David:     I’ve got three more family members.

Karen:     Yeah, I spent a long time in prayer in the middle of the night, but it was because I believe that God works for our prayers and answers our prayers and there’s a power in them, we don’t understand. So, there’s a maybe half hour sleep last night I was doing that prayer work and that’s okay. Part of the I believe system.

David:     Are we minimizing the difficulties people are going through?

Karen:     No!

David:     Not at all, are we? We’re not at all. But we’re saying, you know, we’re not the first people in the world to face hard times as believers, but we will walk through them, and we will be of help to one another. And this is a wonderful privilege we have to be able to speak to people and just say out of our experience, this is what we would share. We’re going to make it together because God is on our side.

Karen:     So, we’re going to ask our listeners as we end this podcast, “how are you on the I believe scale? Are you an I believe person? You can be.”

Outgo:     You may obtain a copy of the handout mentioned in this podcast by pointing your web browser to the following link. www.lifelaunchme.com/bwg. That’s www.lifelaunchme.com/bwg.  Be sure to use all lower-case letters.  You’ve been listening to the Before We Go Podcast. If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please remember to rate, review, and share on whatever platform you listen. This podcast is copyright 2020 by Mainstay Ministries, Post Office Box 30, Wheaton, Illinois 60187.