David:     We call these visits Before We Go. That’s because we’re getting up in years, and before we go, we want to share some of the life lessons we’ve learned, some of what’s been important to us along the way.

Karen:     That’s right and so I’m going to ask our listeners what they think of when I say the word hospitality, because that’s one of the life lessons we’re going to share before we go. In fact, the title of my first book was Open Heart, Open Home, and it was about hospitality. It came out in 1976, and would you believe it? It’s still in print.

Intro:      Welcome to the Before We Go Podcast featuring Dr. David Mains and his wife, noted author, Karen Mains. Here’s David and Karen Mains.

David:     1976, Karen, that’s almost four and a half decades ago. I was counting the decades by my fingers, and that’s really amazing. When people hear the word hospitality, what do you think is the first thing that pops in their mind?

Karen:     There’s a lot of different things that do pop into people’s minds. I’m a certified focus group moderator. I took training so we could do focus groups with pastors, but I’ve run focus groups on hospitality. So, what do people think? What are the things that keep them from practicing hospitality? And one of the things that comes to mind that’s a negative is, “Whoa, I just can’t do it. It’s too much work”, or a fear rises as far as inviting people into their home. They think of the Martha Stewart example of beautifully set tables with gorgeous China and beautifully prepared meals, and it just is overwhelming. Nice to look at in those slick women’s magazines, but a little hard to emulate and copy.

David:     You make a distinction in your book between hospitality and entertaining. Secular entertaining is a terrible bondage, you say. It sources human pride, demanding perfection, fostering the urge to impress. It is a rigorous taskmaster that enslaves. In contrast, scriptural hospitality is a freedom that liberates. Those are good words.

Karen:     Yeah, and that’s really what we’re working with here. So, hospitality, let’s say what is it at its essence? Scriptural hospitality. And let me before I even define it, say that when you look through the total of scripture, you’ll find that there are Old Testament examples of hospitality and injunctions to be hospitable. And that continues all through the New Testament. And one of the points I make in the book, Open Heart, Open Home, is that Jesus was the most hospitable human who ever walked the face of the earth. He was a man, and he didn’t even have a home to call his own. So, he sets the example for us.

David:     It’s kind of a strange thing to say because when you say hospitality, people see it as a feminine practice.

Karen:     Unfortunately. Yeah, unfortunately. But…

David:     …also I want to say Jesus didn’t even have a home. So how could he be hospitable?

Karen:     Yeah.

David:     …because people equate hospitality with a house and having people over to your house, even scriptural hospitality, is people welcoming the stranger into their home and so on.

Karen:     Well, it is that, it is that. But before we even get to that, to the open door, the physical open door of hospitality, we have to understand that hospitality is an invitation to come into my life. And it often begins with “Welcome.” You know, we know those people who make you feel like you’re just wonderful things… They have a gift of leaning in, asking you questions, because they really want to know who you are.

Well, that’s the basic premise of hospitality, that sort of invitation. Tell me who you are. Tell me what your dreams are. Tell me, you know, all these extraordinary questions. Tell me what you’ve been doing with your life, you know, and then it goes on and on from there.

So, we need to start with thinking when we think about hospitality as a profound kind of welcome that we give to the other around us. Now the other can be our own family. I mean, we sometimes don’t practice hospitality with our own family.

David:     Yeah, that’s true.

Karen:     With our neighbors, with the stranger, with the person who is in deep and terrible need. That hospitality begins with a welcome. We want to know about their lives. We don’t want to overlook them. We don’t want to pass them by. And then is this invitation that the other person feels an invitation to come in, to come near, mostly to be known, an invitation to be known. I mean, it’s just extraordinary, the statistics on loneliness and alienation these days.

David:     I think entertaining is mostly about me. I want you to know about me and what I have accumulated.

Karen:     Or how well I can function. I mean, we don’t mean to be that way, but that’s the temptation to slide into. I want to invite you into my beautifully arranged rooms or my clean house or a table with my favorite recipes and my mother’s China. And I want to tell you about our life. None of that is awful.

David:     This is why I’m going back. This is why you said Jesus was the most hospitable person.

Karen:     Yeah.

David:     Whoever walked the face of this earth. Yeah.

Karen:     Well, and the reason I say that is because he understood that hospitality was first this invitation. It was to pay attention to. It was to listen to. It was to ask questions. It was to receive. It was to embrace. And you see him doing that all through the evidence of his life as portrayed in the New Testament. He shows what God’s invitation and welcome is like when he takes on flesh and becomes God on earth, man, the man God on earth. I mean, it’s a profound theology, but that’s why we are commended to hospitality. Scripturally all through scriptures. Pages of scriptures that tell us to do that because it shows in the world what God’s welcome, and invitation is like. It may not even get to the front door or to your home, but it can be practiced wherever you go, wherever you are.

David:     This is just a little bit more from the Vuki Road, open heart, open home. Entertaining says, “I want to impress you with my beautiful home, my clever decorating, my gourmet cooking. Hospitality, however, seeks to minister. It says this home is not mine. It is truly a gift from my master. I am his servant and I use it as he desires. Hospitality does not try to impress, but to serve.”

Karen:     And that changes our whole attitude. I mean, I’ve written a book in open heart, open home, and just had a busy weekend with all kinds of people coming and going in the big, I had leftover Moley that I wanted to use, which is a Mexican dish. I think I slipped more into the entertaining this last weekend and I was exhausted after everyone had gone. And I just need to remind myself that we do what we do to welcome, to serve, to embrace, and it doesn’t have to be perfect. And so, it’s easy to go back into that entertaining mode without even knowing you’ve done it.

David:     I’m thinking of an individual listening to us who might have mental blocks even still, and that person would say something like, “I live in a one-bedroom apartment. I don’t have any place settings. I hardly have good silverware. You know, I don’t know squat about cooking. My table will seat two at the most and you’re wanting me to listen to a podcast about hospitality.”

Karen:     Unfair. Okay, let’s start with that. It’s a great place to start. First of all, we work within our limitations. You’re not going to have 50 people over to one bedroom apartment. There’s not room. That’s a limitation. You may have financial limitations. You really don’t have money to go out and get dinner for even six or eight people and put it on the table. And there are ways to do that simply and cheaply as well.

David:     I should have added “the apartment’s a mess.”

Karen:     The apartment’s a mess.

David:     Yes.

Karen:     Here’s the great idea. Have a friend come over and you co-host. And they help you clean up your apartment to get ready for the people who are coming. So, work within your limitations. One of the things that I suggest is simple ideas like this. Do have people, invite people, and ask them to bring part of the meal. I mean, when we were, we had 8-12 people every other Friday night when we were in the past. It was just something that we did. But I would do the main course, which would be the meat or a casserole.

And then I’d invite everyone to bring a salad, bring a dessert, bring a beverage, bring the bread. And so that took the labor off of an event. And it also took the extra work off of an event. Not only that, I think everyone felt part of it. They did their best with whatever salad they were going to bring or really nice loaves of bread or their favorite family dessert. So, it was in itself an invitation. So that’s one way to get past that.

David:     Here, forgetting, Karen, that we would go to church regularly with people we didn’t know who would be coming, but we would invite them that morning. And we’d say, we’ve fixed food. We don’t have the tables, or the chairs filled. Would you like to come for lunch?

Karen:     Yeah, is anyone free for lunch? That sort of thing, yeah.

David:     I remember one time. In fact, it’s fresh in my mind because we were on a plane. And one of the ladies who was at that meal reminded me.

Karen:     We happened to run into her in the airport. And so, she was going to the same place we were going. We spent about four or five hours talking, just reminiscing about our past friendship. It was wonderful.

David:     Anyway, she said, “Do you remember that day around the table, three of the men of the husbands became believers around that table”? And her husband was there as well. And he didn’t respond to the invitation of Christ that day, which was unusual. I mean, we didn’t say, “Are you a Christian or not”? But just in the normal conversation. But she said words that day. And I still remember them as she reminded me. She said, “He’s not ready yet, but the labor pains are about two minutes apart.” So, he was very cool. And he did. He became a believer.

Karen:     He led him to the Lord later. Yeah, that was, and that was when we were in the pastorate and I would get food ready, a simple meal. And then you would have our worship service at 9 to 10. And then we had small discussion groups after that. And one of them was always the pastor’s class. So, whoever was new or had brought a friend who wanted to dialogue on the sermon or the service that morning would come to that class. And then we often brought people home for dinner because the conversation was so great. You would say, “Gee, this is tremendous conversation. Do you want to come on home, Karen’s got food ready. Let’s have lunch together and we’ll eat together.” And very frequently the people in that group, the pastor’s class, were non-Christians or seekers, as the terminology would be used today. And that’s why we had so many come, you had a chance to really, over a meal, talk about the meaning of faith, what it meant to be a Christian. And many people did become a Christian around our dinning room table.

David:     I think we’ve gone too far beyond where maybe a person listening is able to relate. So, let’s go back and just ask basic questions. We talked about it could be expensive. What if someone says, I don’t even know how to cook. So how do we get around that?

Karen:     Well, you could take a cooking glass, those are kind of fun.

David:     That’s not a good solution. I’m thinking about men listening.

Karen:     This is where you work with your limitations. Someone like a gentleman who wants to open his home or apartment might say, “I’ll provide the room and the venue where people can come. Send out the invitations, but I’m going to need people to help me do the meal.”

David:     Okay.

Karen:     And then different ones just bring different things. You’re going to be just really open with that.

David:     Is it possible for someone to go to a restaurant and pick up part of the meal?

Karen:     Oh, absolutely. Today, the taken venues are just huge. And a lot of that food is really good. I’m not above it myself. You know, we have a fabulous, it’s not a Thai restaurant near bias, but one of those Asian restaurants is a wonderful food. And we sometimes pick that stuff up as well. So that’s one way. Yeah, you’re right. That’s one way to get around that sort of thing.

David:     So, we’re saying, modeling after Christ, that the most important part is not what the house looks like, or it’s not what food is served. It’s more important to think in terms of what?

Karen:     Well, welcome and invitation. I have a great example of that, a story from the past. So, we were in the pastorate, or we had three kids, I think at that time, in a two bedroom apartment. And that we didn’t have a building of our own. We used a Teamsters Union Hall that was available to us on Sunday mornings. So, our home’s became very important places for us to carry on the life of the body. And I’m an avid reader. And so, I’d gotten into a reading jag, reading down through a pile of books and the house. And I think I’ve been reading for three days. Apartment was a mess. Three little kids happily playing and tearing everything apart. And the doorbell rang when we were three flights up. We were on the third floor. And so, I called down and it was a lady named Shirley Dines, and she was from our church. I felt very tempted to just close the front door and sit in the hallway. That’s where the stairs come through is a little landing. And chat with her there. But my father had raised me with this mantra, “Where the heart is open, the home will be.” I kept hearing my dad’s voice. So, I invited Shirley Dines into our very messy apartment. She looked it all over and I thought, “Oh gee whiz.” And then she looked at me. She said, “Karen Mains, I used to think you were perfect. But now I think we can be friends.”

David:     That’s wonderful. That’s a great story.

Karen:     Huge lesson. A huge lesson for me during those years. So, invite people into your life no matter what kind of physical mess it is. They’ll either pitch in and help you or they’ll say, “Gee, now I think we can be friends.”

David:     Let’s go to scripture. You hinted that hospitality is all through the scripture. Can you back that up?

Karen:     I can. I can.

David:     I’m ready.

Karen:     I’ve got two pages here.

David:     Don’t give me that many.

Karen:     I won’t. But I’ll give you a sample. Leviticus.

“But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you. And thou shalt love him as thyself for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am the Lord your God.”

This is the whole beginning of the concept that the stranger is welcome among us. That’s a huge concept. It really comes out of that Middle Eastern ethos and very much a part of the Old Testament. So that’s one Old Testament character.

This is Jesus if I’m Luke. “Then said he also to him that bade him, ‘When thou makest a dinner or a supper, call not thy friends nor thy brethren, neither thy kinsmen nor thy rich neighbors, lest they also bid thee in again and recompense thee. Inviting to your home, those who are helpless, poor, and destitute, and you will be repaid’.”

So, the purpose in that, I think, is not to invite people who do for us, advance our job or give us a good name or talk well about us among other folk. But it’s the ones who can’t do those things for you that you invite into your lives. And we have done that. But you know what, David, we have always benefited from it. We’ve always been on the receiving end of their gratitude. So that’s the scriptural way of thinking.

And then one more. New Testament from Titus 1, “Be a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men sober, just, holy, and temperate, but a lover of hospitality.”

Great scriptures, and there are so many more.

David:     Yeah, so there is that one where maybe you’ve invited angels unaware.

Karen:     Yeah, when you invite strangers to your homes, you don’t know, but you may have included angels in that invitation. I’d like to think that happens.

David:     Let’s talk for a while about the conversation. Because I believe in our minds over the years, we have come to sense that that’s more important than anything else. And it’s an area where people struggle. They don’t know how to direct the conversation where Christ is center. And I don’t mean that in a…

Karen:     In a contrived way at all. No.

David:     Not contrived at all.  It’s a part of your prayer life as you think about the people who are going to be coming. “Lord, you’ve told us where two or three are gathering together, you’ll be there in the midst, but sometimes we’re not very good at sensing your presence. So help us in terms of the conversation, not to be manipulative, but to make it a possibility that you can make your presence known.” I’m thinking of within this last month being in a home, and we were the guests, not the hosts. And the conversation was very interesting, and at a given point it kind of lulled and I said, “You know what, maybe we could go around the table.” There were six of us, including the hosts, and each one of us just share someone who profoundly affected your life in a positive way. Let’s exclude anybody at the table, so I don’t say my wife Karen, you know. But let’s just take a moment of quiet and think about it and then see what our experiences have been.

Karen:     Well, who was someone who profoundly affected you?

David:     And I would say that that took up the next 45 minutes of the conversation.

Karen:     It was an extraordinary conversation, really.

David:     They were wonderful times.

Karen:     Wonderful times, and a lot of people’s life, the trajectory of their lives, the ones who shared, had really been changed by the impact and influence, the positive impact and influence of that one person they were talking about. What we have tried to do in this concept of conversation is a meaningful conversation, and I think you’re better at it than I am, but I’m good at it.

David:     Well, while you’re fixing the meal, I’m often thinking, “What kind of questions can I ask that will help us to know these people better”?

Karen:     Right.

David:     Be Christ-like friends to them. And again, these may be people with no church background whatsoever, or people who have been part of the church, part of the faith, since the time they were little. But you ask the right questions, and then you get to know people in a beautiful way.

Let me just give an example of a neutral question, and anyone is pretty much comfortable with this kind of question.

This doesn’t have to be the best day in your whole life, but as you look back on your life, what day kind of pops in your mind and you say, that was a really good day for me.

And it’s amazing that kind of answers you get to a question like that.

Karen:     And another way of asking that question, which I’ve heard you do, is to say, “Look back on your life and choose the day that you’d like to live again. You wish you could live again.” Wonderful answers come from that.

David:     If that sounds so awkward and like I can’t even imagine myself saying those words, let me simplify it. Okay.

Who around here can share about a recent movie you saw, and you really liked it?

Karen:     And why did you like it?

David:     You’d recommend it.

Karen:     Right.

David:     Or if you want to say a book that you’ve read, we probably won’t read that book. We might go to the movie, but just tell us so that this was a positive thing in your life, and we would like to have the opportunity to at least hear about it.

Karen:     And another innocuous question is, “If there is a place in the world, you’d like to travel that you’ve not been to yet, why would you like to go there”? So those sorts of questions open up conversation to be more than just the chit chat. I frankly hate chit chat, but I don’t want to be judgmental about it because sometimes that’s the way we get into social and situations, but we don’t want to leave the conversation at chit chat level.

David:     Most people feel like you have just said but they don’t know how to get to the next level. So basically, you’re just saying “Let’s figure out some way to get it to a more serious talk.” And quite often, depending on the people you have invited, there will be a spiritual element to what is being shared. And you know when the conversation takes on a whole new tone. And you haven’t forced people into that. You’ve just given them opportunity to speak. In fact, sometimes you find that a person who has said very, very little when they know they have a turn, and they aren’t the first person to have to respond. Then they will enter in and it’s quite amazing sometimes the things that are said.

Karen:     I think if you approach this prayerfully the Holy Spirit in those conversational elements.

David:     Very well said.

Karen:     I mean when you’ve got the people in the room but you’re listening to those questions that sort of rise out of your own soul. I think they’re sometimes inspired by the Holy Spirit because we’re often amazed by the answers that come. And we know intuitively then after those people answer those questions that it was the right questions asked at the right time in the right way. So questioning is one of the greatest ways to invite people to exercise hospitality to welcome them to tell us about their lives. And it just inevitably works. I’ve never known a time when it didn’t.

In fact, you have a question that amazes me often will be traveling, maybe on an airplane, you start chatting with the person near you. And they ask you what you do. And then you say, “Well I’m a minister I’ve been ordained for so many years and been in radio, religious radio” and so forth. And then you might say to them, “What’s your religious history?” And they open up. It’s like no one has ever asked them that question. And they’ve been waiting for someone to ask them about it.

You know, they may talk about a toxic experience that they had with the church and left the church or they were raised without any religious background.

David:     Or they had a grandfather who prayed for them.

Karen:     A grandfather or grandmother who prayed for them yeah and we hear that story a lot. So, that’s a question you wouldn’t think people would be open to. But because you’re a pastor or a minister they want to tell you about it. It’s just a really interesting thing.

David:     You’re not a pastor. Are you listening to us right now? So let me give you another question.

Karen:     So, let’s give our listeners some questions to ask.

David:     Well, I think this is a good question.

Looking back on your life, and if I’m with a group of church people I say exclude Jesus, but you can go back in history or you can take some present personality in the world, “Who is somebody you would just like to have an hour of conversation with”?

Karen:     Yeah, that’s good.

David:     And why do you choose that person?

Karen:     Yeah, that’s lovely.

David:     And you know what Karen? If a family has come and they have teenagers or junior high kids or even kids in grade school the kids enjoy that kind of a question and they get their turn to talk.

Karen:     So, what we’re talking about is an example of hospitality and action through this conversational care. I guess we can say it is learning to ask questions that invite people to tell you who they are to welcome their response. And to welcome their deep yearning to be known. I think is really what we’re going for.

David:     It’s really well said. As people come to the door, we welcome them. “We’re so glad you’re here. We’ve looked forward to this.”

Karen:     My father’s voice in the background “Oh Wilma, look who’s come.”

David:     That’s a great line.

Karen:     Lovely my mother saying to my calling to my mother, “Oh Wilma, look who’s come.”

David:     One of the most powerful ways to model the love and welcome of God is by practicing Christian hospitality. That’s what we’re saying. I’m going to ask you a question. I want you to tell kind of a favorite hospitality story. I’ll tell one as well as you’re thinking about it. I’m ready to tell one.

Karen:     Why don’t you tell yours?

David:     Okay, one of the most powerful ways to model the love and welcome of God is by the practice of Christian hospitality. This is kind of a reversal thing because there was someone who had come to our home I was looking for. I’ll just say his name. It was Dr. Vernon Grounds. Some people know that name. Some don’t. He was a seminary president.

Karen:     Conservative Baptist seminary head of the seminary. Gracious, gracious man. White-haired, lovely, lovely.

David:     He came in the house and one of our sons, who was probably at that time in junior high, the oldest, was there at the door with me. And he saw me and welcomed me. And then he said to our son “…and who are you?” And then “tell me about yourself.”” And I would swear that for 12 to 15 minutes he conversed with my young son, and I just stood there, and I was so impressed. Here was my guest. It was like Jesus had come into the house.

Karen:     It’s an important man.

David:     Yeah, important. I mean my son didn’t know who he was from a political figure.

Karen:     No.

David:     But he honored, not only my son but me in a beautiful way by asking questions and attempting to enter into his world. It’s a day that will live in my mind.

Karen:     Yeah, beautiful.

David:     Until I die.

Karen:     Yeah, beautiful example of Christlikeness. Okay, well my story has to do with the Galloping Gourmet.

David:     Oh yeah, I remember.

Karen:     Graham Kerr.

David:     Yeah, he was huge. He was actually huge in terms of television back in the day.

Karen:     He had an extraordinary conversion experience. His wife who was just a couple weeks away from being entered into a psychiatric hospital.

David:     Let me just say, we’re going back in time. Now some people will never have heard of the Galloping Gourmet. He was from Australia. He was one of the early cooking shows and was huge.

Karen:     Just huge.

David:     Not only in Australia but all across the world.

Karen:     Yeah.

David:     What was his background?

Karen:     He had a college roommate who had this cooking show who got sick, and Graham had to step in for him. All personality and funny and he knew nothing about cooking, but he just took over the show. He came such a big hit that he had to learn about cooking.

David:     He gave an international hit.

Karen:     International hit. So anyway…

David:     I get books and everything else.

Karen:     I get a phone call from a friend who says “The Galloping, Graham Kerr, the Galloping Gourmet is in for a few days and we’re doing work with him and his book. And I think he’s someone that you and David should get to know.” And so, it was right before St. Patrick’s Day. The Mains are Scott’s Irish. We had just discovered that. And I was trying to establish a boiled English dinner and what would we call new English dinner but it would have Irish overtones. It was our first attempt to create a tradition. I said, “Oh, I’m trying to create this tradition but just have him and his wife come.”

David:     I think we were invited to go out to dinner.

Karen:     That’s right. But I was trying to launch this Irish meal on St. Patrick’s Day. So, they came to the door, and I didn’t know much about Graham Kerr. I knew a little bit about him. Sat down at our meal and I had this, you know, broiled biscuit of beef and the vegetables that go with it. And when he sat down at the dinner table, he picked up my wedding China which is an iron stone with a certain, I think it’s Johnson and Johnson or something like that. And he says, exuberant. “Oh, these dishes, this pattern. I ate off of this pattern all my life. My mother brought this from Ireland or Australia”, wherever they came from. And I thought, “Oh yeah, you’re working it.” That’s all this is about. And I brought in this English brisket, this Irish brisket of beef and same sort of thing. “This is my favorite meal. How did you know?”

I was planning for family, you know. I’m in the back of my head thinking, “Oh gosh, you’re really working it.” Our kids at their dinner table.

David:     Well, it was just Gram.

Karen:     …and his wife.

David:     No, his…

Karen:     … all the kid’s children weren’t there?

David:     No

Karen:     No, no, no. They weren’t there because we went to…

David:     His wife was not there.

Karen:     Treena was not there. We got to know her later. Okay.

The kids were there because we had this tradition where each child could ask of a new guest at our table. One question and you and they pulled them into the conversation and then they would each ask a question.

David:     So, we had four children.

Karen:     Right.

David:     Quite young to probably how old would be the old…

Karen:     I have no idea. High school. Randall is probably in high school.

David:     Yeah, high school.

Karen:     Jeremy was ten or something like that.

David:     Myself and Graham.

Karen:     …and Graham. Okay, sorry.

So, they began to ask questions and one of the children asked…

David:     That was Randall.

Karen:     He said, “How did you become a Christian?”

David:     Yeah, that was his question.

Karen:     And up to that point he had been, you know, the personality button had been turned on. He went into this extraordinary story. His wife Treena that’s where I began. And this is what he told us. Was about a couple weeks from being committed to a psychiatric hospital. Her psychiatrist had made a reservation or a commitment for her. She had extraordinary personality character. Psychological difficulties. And somewhere in there they had a homemaker. Like a housekeeper who had prayed for Treena. Was a devout Christian woman. And she led Treena to the Lord. And Graham said her psychiatrist said to him this woman is a different woman. In fact, I don’t know she’s a different woman. She’s a practically all new woman. And that impacted Graham. Her conversion was so dramatic. There was such a difference in her personality. She received the love of God that Graham then wanted to become a Christian as well. So, after the parts where the showman was on, we get this very real beautiful story of conversion and faith. And I’m sitting around thinking “Oh thank God my children are here at this table to hear this extraordinary story from this man.”

So, at the door we’re saying goodbye we’ve had this wonderful evening. The children have been a part of it. And I say goodbye at the door. And he leans over to me. He gives me a kiss. And he says, “Thank you for inviting me into your home. There are not a lot of people who would have me into their home.”

David:     Oh Yeah.

Karen:     Isn’t that extraordinary? It was such a big name that people wouldn’t have had the Galloping Gourmet to come for dinner. And it was just, you know, happens… dance as far as I was concerned.

David:     Yeah

Karen:     But we did have a theology and a theory and a practice of invitation and welcome and so that was extended to him and he felt it.

David:     And we did have a time when we would sit with the kids and say, “Each one of you, you’re to ask a question.”

Karen:     Yeah.

David:     It’s not what’s your favorite color or something like that but and one of the kids that said, “How did you become a Christian?”

Karen:     Yeah.

David:     And it turned out to be a night that will never ever be forgotten.

Karen:     Yeah. Extraordinary.

David:     Lots of good stories about hospitality and this is the first of three such visits I want to go back to that sentence and hopefully we’ve captured an individual listening to us who has picked up at least a few ideas that push them to the place where they say I think I can do what they’re talking about. One of the most powerful ways to model the love and welcome of God is by the practice of Christian hospitality. Do you feel that as I said?

Karen:     I knew. I hope our listeners does too.

David:     I think so. And hopefully we’ll get a chance to talk twice more as that individual listen.

Outgo:     You’ve been listening to the before we go podcast. If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please remember to rate, review, and share on whatever platform you listen. This podcast is copyright 2020 by Mainstay Ministries Post Office Box 30, Wheaton, Illinois, 60187.