David:     In generations past, when God’s people sensed impending danger of some kind, they often fasted. An example of this is found in the Old Testament book of Esther. Recall how the lives of all Jews in the vast Persian Empire were threatened because an evil man by the name of Haman.

Karen:     And here once again are the well-known words of Mordecai, the relative who raised Esther, a beautiful young orphan child who in time had become Queen to Xerxes, the powerful Persian ruler.

Let me read a little bit. “Mordecai says, ‘Do not think that because you are in the king’s house, you alone of all the Jews will escape. For if you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance for the Jews will arise from another place, but you and your father’s family will perish. And who knows but that you have come to royal position for such a time as this?’”

Intro:      Welcome to the Before We Go Podcast featuring Dr. David Mains and his wife, noted author Karen Mains. Here’s David and Karen Mains.

David:     Karen, just to finish what we began, you should also probably read Esther’s words in response to Mordecai.

Karen:     “Then Esther sent this reply to Mordecai, ‘Go gather together all the Jews who are in Sousa and fast for me. Do not eat or drink for three days, night or day. I and my maids will fast as you do and when this is done, I will go to the king even though it is against the law, and if I perish, I perish.’”

David:     Okay, well we’ve kind of given away where we’re headed. So, let me put into a sentence what our bottom line is going to be this visit. Concerned Christians would do well today to ask the Lord if fasting is something they should seriously consider.

Karen:     So, let me put this podcast into context. Two visits back we begin talking about the deep concern we have for the American church which we feel is losing its battle with this culture.

David:     We call that podcast Karen A Moment Of Truth and we used an illustration from Hans Christian Andersen. His story about the emperor’s new clothes which ends in that moment of truth when a little child watching the emperor marching in parade supposedly wearing a marvelous set of new clothing made of invisible cloth that could be seen only by very intelligent people. Nobody wanted to be perceived as unintelligent, so they all pretended they could see the marvelous outfit he was wearing. Anyway, it’s the little boy who finally pops the royal bubble by asking in a clear voice that could be heard by everyone watching along with him. “Mommy, why doesn’t the emperor have any clothes on?”

Karen:     That is a moment of truth. What we were asking in that podcast was this. Is the church in America still as strong as it was in years past? And without reviewing all our content of that podcast, we concluded that our American society is influencing the church today far more than the church is influencing society. And for us that’s a major shift.

David:     The so-called day of the evangelical, and you remember that Karen, it’s probably a couple decades back. That’s gone and it’s time for us to face up to that fact.

Karen:     And so, our bottom line in that podcast was a call for believers to consider seriously becoming part of a prayer group, forming a prayer group, joining a prayer group, but not just praying a solo prayer, praying alone.

David:     And that’s a big step for people. I hope that people heard us, and some people actually acted upon that. Our last podcast was along that same vein. The time has come for church people to up their game, to move beyond spontaneous prayers, which we’re relatively good at and comfortable with, and to begin to put on paper what we want God to do. And then taking those written prayers and posting them on our church bulletin boards, sending them to love ones, family members, whatever.

Karen:     And then inviting some people who have a concern in their hearts to come along beside them and to pray those kinds of prayers.

David:     The time has come for hundreds of thousands of American Christians to up their praying to a whole new level is what we were talking about in that podcast.

Karen:     So, we’ve already given away where we are headed on this visit.

David:    But I’ll repeat it again anyway. Concerned Christians would do well today to ask the Lord if fasting is something they should seriously consider.

Karen:     Now one of the advantages of working on podcasts is you begin to face your own truths. And we both concluded as we were working on this topic that neither of us is an expert in this area. And that thought’s a little intimidating. So, just know as we talk about this, we are applying these concepts to ourselves and saying to the Lord, “How is it you want us to participate?”

David:     Initial thoughts. When I hear the word fasting, I almost immediately associate that with sackcloth and ashes. And that’s not very attractive to me.

Karen:     Nor does it come out of the American culture, but it is very much a part of the fasting process in the scriptures.

David:     Yeah, in fact, many times Karen, people would be sitting there in great sorrow because war has taken over their country, whatever, and it’s all clothing and putting ashes on their head and wailing. You get that feel. That’s not what we’re talking about yet. We’re basically saying this is an exercise that has great value, and we need to begin to explore it again.

Karen:     It’s a spiritual exercise and we’re wanting to move it into a spiritual discipline in our own personal lives.

David:     Next thing I usually think about when I hear that word fasting is about Jesus himself. It’s amazing to me. Scriptures say he went for 40 days without drinking or without eating anything. He was preparing himself for the incredible ministry that his father wanted him to accomplish here on earth. But just the fact that doing that is amazing.

Karen:     So, there’s a similar story about Moses in the Old Testament. Was that a 40 day fast as well?

David:     Yes,

Karen:     It was. Oh, my goodness. Yeah.

David:     Yeah, he’s up there all alone on top of the mountain with the Lord. It’s a very intimidating thought. But he’s fasting during that time. Once again for 40 days just like Jesus did later.

Karen:     Now for beginners, people who are not very well practiced in the whole area of fasting, I think it would be much better to talk about a food fast for a day from sunrise maybe to sundown.

David:     Well, that’s what it was usually for the Jewish people. They didn’t go 24 hours. They didn’t have electric lights or things. So, it was sunup to sundown.

Karen:     So, as fasting mentioned all that much in Scripture? We seem to keep running into examples of fasting just as we were sort of remembering things. What are some other examples of fasting?

David:     Well, wartime. Often the kings would call the people to a fast. I could give illustrations that I think would makes sense. The day of atonement. That was the high holy day for the Jewish people.

Karen:     What is the context of the day of atonement? They’re all joining in.

David:     Yeah, but it’s the one time when the priest actually goes into the holy of holies.

Karen:     Oh, right. I remember now.

David:     And fasting is involved with the day of atonement. If I go back to the book of Ezra just to get some historic accounts, you remember the story. Ezra has been captive in a foreign country and now the king is letting some of those people go back again.

Karen:     Some of the Israelites go back to the land of their fathers.

David:     Because it’s a dangerous trip and they’re taking a lot of the treasures of Israel back to Jerusalem to restore the city. The king asked, would you like protection? And this is kind of an interesting thing. There by the canal I proclaimed a fast so that we might humble ourselves before our God and ask Him for a safe journey for us and our children with all our possessions. I was ashamed to ask the king for soldiers and horsemen to protect us from enemies on the road because we had told the king the gracious hand of our God is on everyone who looks to him. But his great anger is against all who forsook him. So, we fasted and petitioned our God about this, and God answered our prayer.

Karen:     David, what a particularly human story that is. And that you testify to the greatness of God and then you kind of live it out.

David:     We got to get our protection from the Lord here.

Karen:     It’s great.

David:     The next book is Nehemiah and you have almost the same thing. It follows up on that previous story. Nehemiah is the cupbearer to the king. And the king says, “How come you’re looking so sad today? What’s the problem?” And he has heard a report from the exiles who went back to Jerusalem.

Karen:     Nehemiah has heard that.

David:     Those who survived the exile and are back in the province are in great trouble and disgrace. The wall of Jerusalem is broken down and its gates have been burned with fire. He says, “When I heard these things, I sat down and wept for some days. I mourned and fasted and prayed before the God of Heaven.” And then the Scripture records his prayer. But it gives you again, just in a historic context, certain times when fasting comes up in the scriptures.

Karen:     I remember something about David had married Bathsheba. He’d sent her husband Uriah off to war and then asked the other warriors to withdraw from him. So, he was killed. That David had an affair with Bathsheba and freed him to marry her. And she was expecting from that affair.

David:     So, the baby when it came was very sick. David fasted before the Lord. It’s kind of a strange turn of everything because the whole thing was not pleasing to God. David fasted and was in terrible agony and the baby died.

Karen:     The baby died.

David:     Yeah. It’s just again David saying, “What can I do that is extreme?” And he fast at that point in time.

Karen:     And I imagine there was a great deal of repentance that went along with that prayer of fasting too. Just the humanity of it. There’s a wonderful story that I really, really to know. Anna, who was 84 years of age. I’m 79.

This is scripture. I remember the scripture saying she never left the temple but worshiped day and night with fasting and praying.

David:     Yeah, she’s a wonderful character.

Karen:     Oh, it’s now a wonderful picture. Yeah.

David:     In the New Testament, you get Paul when he talks about all the hardships he’s gone through. He includes numerous fasts that were a part of his regular routine. Just other thoughts kind of random to me. I’m thinking Jesus’ instructions about fasting. Don’t show off.

Karen:     Well, the Pharisees, who were the Jewish religious leaders of that day, would make a point of being in the street so that everyone would know they’re fasting and have sackcloth and ashes on their head. And Jesus said, “Don’t show off you’re fasting before men.”

David:     That’s one thing I don’t like about the fasting. You got to keep it secret.

Karen:     Well, according to Jesus, you do it unto God.

David:     Yeah, I’d like for everybody to know. I identify with those religious leaders but yeah, Jesus, you don’t do it to show off.

Karen:     So, when do we fast? What are some of the times that we fast?

David:     I think we fast when you’re feeling desperate about something. When you have deep, deep feeling. When you don’t have everything figured out yet.

Karen:     Oh, you’re not getting an answer to something perhaps you’ve been perplexed about and interceding for quite a while.

David:     Yeah, actually, it’s interesting because in the Old Testament, Daniel, when he knows there is a revelation coming, he feels this. But he fasts because he wants to make sure that he is prepared to hear what God wants to say to him.

Karen:     So, there’s sort of a prophetic knowing with many of these people. And then they know that there’s a revelation or revealing. And so, they fast. So, I suppose so they’ll be able to receive it in its totality and understand that. That’s great.

David:     Fasting is something that I’m going to struggle with in a food sense more than you. Why is that?

Karen:     I’m in a physical state where I really shouldn’t be food fasting.

David:     I agree.

Karen:     And that’s because a couple summers back I had what’s called a dysphagia and disorder of my esophagus and I could hardly eat. I mean, I got some food down, but it was very, very difficult.

David:     This is part of hospitalization.

Karen:     It was quite a long hospitalization as they were trying to work things out, figure things out and get me back in good shape again. So, I’ve had to think about fasting in a very different sort of way. And fortunately, I did have some experiences in my younger years that have been formed how I can practice fasting without doing a food fast. I weigh 114 pounds sometimes 112 pounds. I’m trying to get up to 120 which I think is a much healthier place for me to be.

But during those times when I was thinking about fasting, one of the fasts that I entered into which was really interesting and had a very powerful work in my life was shopping fast. Being young and we were in the ministry so there wasn’t a lot of money to spend, I would sort of give myself a hyper high by just browsing through the stores, you know, not bought anything. It was just…

David:     …recreational.

Karen:     Yeah, recreational kind of viewing and shopping with your eyes. And it was something I did just kind of get away from the house. And I was convicted that really was not the way I should be using my time. And so interestingly enough, I began to just stay out of the retail stores. I don’t know that I have been in a retail store apart from a big store that has everything in it but not to just do retail shopping like I was doing even if it was just eye shopping. And so, I began to go to resale shops. Just the things that we needed in the family stuff. I was trying to find for the household or coffee pot I broke it in, so I go to a resale store and find a substitute for it.

Well in a way that was a kind of break from my pattern and then it introduced me to shopping fasting. And at that time in my life, I really began to practice shopping fasting. I was to out of the retail stores. We needed something and went to the Goodwill or whatever resale shop was by. That has lasted with me for the rest of the year.

David:     I would testify to that.

Karen:     And I’m very careful not even to do that as a simply going in and seeing if there’s something there that I didn’t know I wanted or needed and I find it. I go because I’m looking for something.

So that’s a kind of fast that’s different than the food fasting which you really can’t do. I can skip a meal a day but that doesn’t really get into the spirit of what fasting is. Giving up something, moving yourself into an area of sincerity and intentionality. So, I’m just saying this because there are some people who may have a medical condition and they just really can’t food fast.

So, there are other ways to do fasting. We basically remove ourselves from a regular activity, refuse to do it for the sake of our spiritual growth. And the fact that we are holding something of importance up to the Lord, and we want him to hear us. And then to answer our prayers however he deems best to do that.

David:     Yeah, no that’s very helpful. I appreciate you sharing it, Karen. My feeling is we’re talking about this whole area because I have this sense that there are others along with us who are beginning to feel a little desperate regarding where the country is and where the world is. We don’t have everything figured out. We can’t say that we’re uneasy about what’s ahead. There’s this sensing of impending danger. I’m trying to get words as to what I’m describing. A danger for the church, and also for the country.

Karen:     Well, the funny thing is if you’re watching where there’s discussion or commentary on television, many, many people will mention that there’s a concern for our American democracy. Are we at a point in our lives when we could lose this democracy? I heard a beautiful testimony in the hearings that have been going on now relating to the January 6th committee from a man who was an obvious Christian. And he said something that just impacted me. He said that he believed the Constitution of the United States was inspired by God. It was an inspired document.

I had never ever thought of that before, but I agreed with him. So, we want to hold to our hearts the things that are holy about the American dream. We think of it perhaps in a populist kind of way. Is the American dream part of God’s heart for the world? And is it more than just a secular institution? Shouldn’t we be holding that up before the Lord going before him with regular periods of fasting? That’s something important enough that I can come to it and say let me fast in the best way I can.

David:     Well, it’s possible, Karen, that believers could change the very trajectory of the country even as Jewish people did back in the day of Esther. As the whole nation spread out in many cities across the whole of that empire. But they drew together and they fasted before the Lord and they were asking for something exceptional to happen. Couldn’t figure out how it could possibly happen because it seemed as if nothing but bad news was being received and then God worked in a phenomenal way.

I think Esther is a book that people would do well to go back and read. And just say, “Oh my goodness, look what happened. And could that be a part of where the day is now?”

And so again just as we’ve been going through this series and I’m trying to push people. But I’m not trying to push by shaking my fist and by raising my voice. I’m just saying in a very calm way but a very strong way. Hopefully let us figure out how we can up our game. Let us figure out how we can make our prayers more powerful than they have been. Let us learn to work together to see a whole new day when the church is elevated for the sake of the country and so on. So that’s how I want people to hear us but at the same time if they do there will be a shaking inside and a certain “Oh my golly has it come to that.”

Karen:     And what are we taking on here? There is reality here. There’s urgency here. And some of that may be, and I’m pretty sure it, is pushing by the Holy Spirit to do the work of God in his way in our world. And part of that fasting for our nation for me, and I would suggest it needs to be included in those fasting prayers. You don’t just fast you pray for would be that the church would come alive in a way that we have not known in our lifetime.

So, I think that is a prayer I can fast and pray about. There’s urgency enough of that. There’s a seriousness to it and begin to pray that other people will have this burden laid on their hearts. So that as a cohort of Christians all across this nation. And as you’ve said before, there need to be thousands and hundreds of thousands of us praying that we would begin to take our prayers of sincerity and earnestness and concern, combine it with fasting. And then just see what God does with that.

David:     Yeah, when you’re all finished with what you’re saying I’m dying to say a word to this amen. Yeah, I’m with you. Let the Lord be praised.

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