David:         Winter is not that far off, Karen. What’s your response when I sound that reminder?

Karen:         Well, I think of all of our elderly friends who migrate to warmer places other than the Chicago winter temperature area. We’re not migrating.

David:         Nope.

Intro:            Welcome to the Before We Go Podcast featuring Dr. David Mains and his wife, noted author Karen Mains. Here’s David and Karen Mains.

David:         I think, Karen, about the winter coming up because my legs are not as stable as they once were in that ice and the Chicago land area is going to be something that I have to keep in mind all the time. What do you note in terms of aging?

Karen:         Well, let’s see. I’m 79, I’ll be 80 very shortly. And what I see the most is our memory problems. I can’t remember names of people. I laugh and I say “It’s not my memory. That’s bad. It’s my retrieval system that’s slow.”

David:         You’re reminded of it daily, aren’t you? It’s just like I know that guy’s name, but I just cannot pull it up. And then a little bit later when you don’t need it anymore, it comes.

Karen:         Yeah. And for me, it’s mostly where did I put the Bible, journal, pan? Endless list.

David:         Yeah, I find that one of the signs that is regularly coming to me is that my handwriting is shaky. It looks wobbly when I write notes to people and I wonder, can they even read that? That’s very frustrating to me.

Karen:         So, before we go on and on, I think the point has been made. We are aging and we’re noticing some of the effects of becoming elderly people in our population.

David:         This is a time for most people when they slow down and God’s expectation for our lives haven’t decreased. I think they have increased.

Karen:         Yeah, I don’t know why. Maybe it’s because we have gathered some wisdom through the years.

David:         Wouldn’t that be wonderful?

Karen:         Wouldn’t that be wonderful?

David:         Yeah.

Karen:         But we have all sorts of things that are happening that are total surprises. So, we’d like to share some of those things with our listeners.

David:         Well, we talked last visit in terms of what’s happening as far as the books, The Tales Of The Kingdom. We’re aware as these things begin to unfold that this is not going to be a time of slowing down for us, but the Lord is opening more doors. In scripture, Karen, there are any number of people who are older and all of a sudden, the massive thing is happening in their lives.

I think of the Old Testament and Abraham. He’s a 100, Sarah is 90 and they’re going to have a child which has a lot of ramifications as far as busyness is concerned. You go into the New Testament and just any of the characters, John is very old.

Karen:         This, when he was writing Revelation, is that correct?

David:         Yeah, yes.

Karen:         And I think of Simeon in the temple and Anna who had been waiting for the coming of the Messiah and had this fortunate experience of being in the temple. Because that’s basically where they spent most of their time in prayer to see the child brought for dedication by his parents. It’s just an extraordinary little piece in the scripture.

David:         I’m going to pick up the story of someone else we had the privilege of meeting. We were invited to go to Acapulco because Dr. Norman Vincent Peale and his wife were having their annual reunion and there were, I don’t know how many, there were a lot of people there.

Karen:         Givers and supporters and people who were a part of their ministry.

David:         Norman Vincent Peale is a name that most people, you have to be almost older to know that, but he was a huge figure on the American scene.

Karen:         He was a minister. As was his father.

David:         His father was a doctor, became a minister in little congregations in Ohio. And then his son came along and incredible ministry in the media. He was writing millions and millions of copies of his books. The Power Of Positive Thinking was the big one.

Karen:         Now he was a pastor.

David:         Marble Collegiate Church in New York.

Karen:         In New York City. I looked up his bio and the church had been just a handful of people. Every church he served at, and it immediately increased to thousands in attendance. I mean he had an extraordinary message that met the need of people then and was recognized to meet the needs of them. You can maybe tell what that message was.

David:         Well, it was all the matter of thinking positively and he rooted that in scripture. He was a controversial figure to some degree, but at the same time when we met him, he was in his 90s. And we were in Mexico as his guest to speak for his people which was a high honor as far as I was concerned. And then I listened to him speak a couple of times. It was really, really good.

Karen:         At that age, he was in his early 90s. He died at age 99, but David he was so gracious to you.

David:         Yes, he was.

Karen:         It was really an older man kind of putting his arm around a younger man in ministry and I don’t think you remember the things he said, but he sort of gave you some positive suggestions as far as the ways you could improve your communication technique. And not in a way that was offensive. It was just someone…

David:         He wasn’t “I’m smarter than you at all.”

Karen:         No, just lovely.

David:         Yeah. I’m going to read a little section from one of his books which is actually his autobiography, The True Joy of Positive Living, just to give you a feel. Because when he spoke, he was a storyteller. And he was almost an awe shocks type of guy. You know he wasn’t smart Alec at all. I’m reading from his book.

In the little village where his dad was pastor there was a man Dave Henderson, a nice enough fellow when he was sober, but when drunk he was by common consent a holy terror. Dave was a big man with hands like hams and fists having the driving power of pistons, so said those who had felt their impact in fights, ordinarily genial, with liquor in him, Dave would pick a fight at the slightest provocation. He also had the reputation of being the champion local cusser and was quite foul mouthed. Some said he was a wife beater, but his dignified and cultured wife would never admit to anything of that sort. Curiously Dave was a fairly regular churchgoer, and he would sit in a back pew. He would always shake my father’s hand on the way out afterward. “Good sermon, Reverend, I like to hear you talk.” Father liked him and often said that if old Dave ever got religion, he would be a great man for the Lord. He worked on the big fellow spiritually but with no apparent result until one night. After preaching a strongly evangelistic sermon it was father’s practice to invite any who wished their lives changed to come forward and kneel at the altar, and many did.

His ministry resulted in conversions and most remained faithful over the years. But this night after the revival sermon no one had come forward when suddenly there was a stir. Someone was walking down the aisle. The very floor seemed to shake with his tread. Mother looked around, “It’s Dave,” she gasped. The big fellow knelt at the altar. He said something to father.         Afterward father told us what David said, “I don’t want to live this way anymore, Reverend. I want Jesus. I want him to save me.” Father prayed with him in a low voice and put his hand in blessing on the big fellows really black hair. Then Dave arose and faced the congregation. Boy that I was, I was awed by the look on his face. A look of wonder and inexpressible joy. It’s printed on my memory to this day. Of course, some said the conversion wouldn’t last. How could a renegade like that be changed in a minute of time? But it did last for over 50 years until he died. He became literally a saint, a new man in Christ, and for half a century he blessed the lives of everyone who knew him.

Then one day, only a few years ago, I heard that Dave’s long and beautiful life was nearing its end. So, I went to see him in his old home in the little Ohio village. I found him in bed. His hair as white as the pillow on which his great head rested. He was frail. His hands on the coverlet were thin. The blue veins showing. I took his hand. It still had something of its former massive grip.

Anyway, there was love in it. We talk to the old days and of the ways of the Lord Jesus, how he blesses all who love and follow him. “Your father was a great man, Norman, greatest man I ever knew. Who can be greater than a man who leads you to the Lord. And I love you, son. You were with me that wonderful night when my soul was cleansed, when the Lord came and saved me. One of his wandering sheep. I’ll always love you, Norman.” “And I love you, David.” I replied, choking up. “Let’s have a prayer before I go.” I said, “…and I want you to pray.”

I knelt by the bed of the great old saint. He put his hand upon my head. His voice faded at times, either through weakness or emotion. But every word is burned into my memory. His blessing is unforgettable. At the door I stood and waved at him. With a gentle smile, he lifted his hand. Never saw him again.

As a little boy, awestruck by the mystery of change in a man’s very nature, I asked Father to explain it. “All I can say is that it is the power of God.” Then he added, “The Creator is also the re-creator.” But the incident with Dave impressed my consciousness with the wonder and glory of the ministry. And I am certain that this added to other experiences overcame my resistance to becoming a minister.

This sounds just like Norman Vincent Peale. This was a wonderful life, you know, in old age. Karen, I remember thinking at the time, this man is in his middle 90s and I was still a young man. If I could in my middle 90s still be active for the Lord and blessing people’s lives, that would be a wonderful privilege.

Karen:         So, the reason we’re talking about this in our elderly years come an opportunity our way that we would never have dreamed about, can’t do by ourselves. And we’re going around sort of touching ourselves and saying, am I real? So, you want to talk about it a little bit, David?

David:         Well, my legs aren’t what they used to be. You know, my handwriting is not what it used to be. My memory is not what it used to be. But there is this call in our lives to be there present and to expect wonderful things from the Lord, not necessarily for our sake. But the Lord is saying, maybe you’re usable now more than you were before, David and Karen.

Karen:         So, we had a call. Someone approached us on the part of some of their friends from California. Christian people, very devout people, but they’ve had a lot of history in the entertainment industry. Many, many connections. And the woman who felt passionate about getting in touch with us, her first name is Diane. And she’s the one who has the most connections in the Hollywood entertainment industry. And somewhere along her journey she’d had a very hard divorce and a terrible custody fight for her daughter. And up until that time she’d been doing acting in Hollywood and every actor she’s named from Al Pacino to…

David:         Robert De Niro… and Leonardo DiCaprio, these are people, she’s been in major roles.

Karen:         Major roles and so you do an internet search when someone comes into your life like that and my goodness, she was far beyond anything we ever dreamed. So, she had in her spiritual journey, someone had given Her The Tales Of The Kingdom Books, the trilogy. And she said she was so overwhelmed by them. And the reality that they presented to her life about the king and following the king. And she made a point of reading them to her daughter. And they sort of made this journey in faith. The daughter is married and have five kids and Diane is very proud of that family.

David:         And they’re reading the tales to her.

Karen:         And they’re reading the tales again. So, she wanted us to consider whether we would give her permission to begin to put the tales into full-length feature film. Of course, that’s way out of our territory at all.

You, sort of say who us? And then if that has a sort of an imprimatur of God’s hand upon it and he blesses it. Then they would make it into sort of a stage production and make it available across the country. But they have a whole methodology that is light and sound that is not just people on the stage but you pull in the technology in a way that I haven’t seen yet but she showed me samples of it and it was extraordinary. It would be wonderful for these books. But what came out of it was you’ve actually read them more than I have. I did reread them maybe 20 years after I had written them. Of course, that’s a joint bio on both of us because you did all of the research on the king and the kingdom, and we integrated that into the storytelling.

Before Diane came back into our lives just about five or six months ago, I had reread the tales and I thought wow these are really good. I’m not a good enough writer to do this kind of work. This has to be something that God entrusted to us because he knew he could trust us. So, we spent three days with Diane and her production assistant and another associate talking about what it would take to go ahead. But first they needed to go ahead from us in an option an agreement that they could work on it.

David:         Which means we need to come up with a contract.

Karen:         A contract.

David:         That means probably we need to talk with a lawyer. An entertainment lawyer.

Karen:         So, as we’re working with this, all of a sudden, the reality of it all. I mean it’s fifty million dollars, David.

David:         He’s talking about the budget for the first film. So, fifty million dollars is when you say that to us our minds don’t even comprehend it.

Karen:         Well, I’m sure not comprehend it now but it’s a great deal of money.

David:         It’s not for us to raise. She’s not saying we’re going to sell you unless you pay.

Karen:         I don’t think that includes all of the cost of the pre-production but that’s her business. But what I was mostly shaken by was you have to have experts in film. You have to have experts in photography. You have to have shown runners. I mean on and on and on and on. So, we came home and I was just blasted physically. She’s this extraordinary personality. A woman of a deep faith. I mean I’m almost weeping now to be able to cross paths with someone who has that deep kind of faith and a woman of prayer.

David:         Well, she’s in prayer groups.

Karen:         Yeah, and that was her part of her intercessory prayer team that came with her. So, we were just in our old years saying what is God doing? What is he doing?

David:         I don’t think we’re the only people our age who are going through similar situations where they say “God is that you want me to write a book? Is that what you’re asking Lord? You know how much writing a book is as far as work is concerned?”

I’ve had people contact me and they say, “Please pray” and I have prayed for them. I write those down and I pray for those people. But it’s just basically saying that even though you are far along in terms of years, it doesn’t mean necessarily that God says, “Okay I’m done with you. I got to get some younger blood here.” He works with all ages and sometimes in a miraculous way with older people.

Karen:         So, this is what’s happened since this word came to us. We had a letter come to the chapel of the air. You picked up the mail there were four letters that day.

David:         Well, I’m struggling with all this and I’m saying, “Lord in some way give me a sign.” In fact, as I’m driving to the post office, because I don’t have people to go to the post office for me now, I do all that myself. You know, if you had some kind of a word for me, that would be encouraging that you’re in all of this. Yeah, there were four letters. That wasn’t bad for a given day’s mail because we used to get hundreds and hundreds of letters when we were on radio all across the country. But now there’s just faithful supporters. Three of them were returned envelopes that we send to our donors. And one of them was just a plain envelope and usually in the plain envelope it’s a request from someone for the church has been on the 50-day adventure. Some they’re asking for a premium of some kind. So, I didn’t even look at it that much. Then when I got home, I opened it and there was a very large check which when I say very large, we get these maybe once every two or three months, several thousand dollars. I thought, “Wow, okay, Lord that’s you’re speaking to me we have had one lows for a long time.”

Karen:         But on the envelope in the back there was a stamp you know how sometimes where the flap comes down you put a little stamp.

David:         Not a postage stamp…

Karen:         But a little stamp.

David:         Yeah.

Karen:         And lo and behold, it was a stamp that we had sent out to donors when we were broadcasting on the Chapel of the Air. So, this is decades ago.

David:         And it said on it, lights from the chapel window, which that’s my Aunt Mary, John D. Jess, my uncle and his wife, Mary Jess.

Karen:         So, this obscure little stamp was on the back of the envelope.

David:         Where in the world did that come from? I mean lights from the chapel window, that was her little column in terms of the newsletter they sent out. So, that’s got to be, Karen, that stamp has to be at least 40-45 years old.

Karen:         So, what did it say David?

David:         Well, I wrote it down it said “Lights from the chapel window. Faith is not just believing that God can but knowing that he will.” You know where in the world that came from, I don’t know but it’s like a voice from the past. It is as God’s saying you’d like to have a little sign that I’m in this okay buster.

Karen:         And there’s money to booze. But I’m going to repeat that again because I’ve had to write it down and think about it. Faith is…

David:         Not just believing that God can but knowing that he will.

Karen:         So, we’ve been going around saying to ourselves, “Okay we believe you will provide the funds for this project that isn’t even our idea but could have an extraordinary benefit in the lives of children all over their world.” Of course, the books the Tales of the Kingdom, of the Resistance, and Tales of the Restoration were written for children of all ages because I believe there’s a child in every one of us, even though we’re adult, even though we’re old people. And that’s what the potential of this, is to take the word that came through those books and take it out into culture in a way we never dreamed.

David:         I’m on this kind of interesting journey and I’m still in the gulp mode of what’s going on and just kind of standing back and watching and I know these are projects that take years and years to unfold. I’m thinking though not just about us I’m thinking about various listeners who are feeling that same gulp. “Is it what you want me to do God? And I just need to remind you that I’m in my 80s.” That’s what other people are feeling in terms of other callings that God is sending out to his people.

Karen:         So, here’s another word the Lord gave to me. This one’s after John the Baptist had been killed. Jesus went into the wilderness and when he came out of the wilderness there was a crowd waiting for him. A huge crowd. Some 5,000 people and I don’t think that counted the women or the children. That evening the disciples said to him, “It’s already past time for supper and there is nothing to eat here in the desert. Send the crowds away so they can go to the villages and buy some food.” But Jesus replied ‘That isn’t necessary. You feed them.’ ‘What?’ They exclaimed. They have exactly five small loaves of bread and two fish.

David:         Not even an egg mac muffin. Two little fish.

Karen:         “Bring them here,” he said. Then he told the people to sit down in the grass and he took the five loaves and two fish looked up into the sky and yes God’s blessing on the meal. Then broke the loaves apart and gave them to the disciples to place before the people and everyone ate until full. And when the scraps were picked up afterwards there were 12 basket full left over. If that is not a word for us.

David:         And I say not only for us but for whoever happens to be listening who needed to hear that. Let’s put it into a sentence. Be glad that God doesn’t stop challenging people to follow him in faith just because they are elderly. I’m going to say one more time because maybe someone needs to hear it a second time. Be glad that God doesn’t stop challenging people to follow him in faith just because they are elderly.

Now I’m interested whether other people heard that as a word from the Lord. What about us? We heard this as a word from the Lord. David and Karen be glad that God doesn’t stop challenging people to follow him in faith just because they’re elderly.

Karen:         You bet.

David:          Okay.

Outro:         You’ve been listening to the Before We Go podcast. And if you would like to write to us, please send us an email at the following address, hosts@beforewego.show. That’s all-lower-case letters. hosts@beforewego.show.

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